To Bounce or not to Bounce

Last night I read an old thread about bouncing the ramrod so today I gave it a try. Everything shot at 40 yd, 50 cal 50 gr 3f. The top 3 holes are bouncing the under barrel wood ramrod and the bottom 4 is pushing it down and tapping it once with a brass range rod ( my normal way of loading). What I see is the bounce made the velocity higher and maybe the push is a little more accurate. I figured the bounce would flatten the ball and make it fit tighter, intern giving more velocity and engage the rifling better. The bounce definitely raised POI as to the bottom being more accurate, well that's a question mark as I'm not the greatest shot in the world.
Just for fun, Phil

IMHO, the bounce of the ramrod compacts the powder charge and it tells me that the ball, patch and powder are all firmly connected. I have done this since I first started with muzzle loaders, close to 40 years.

For accuracy you must do everything the same, (pause for importance) every time. Same pour into the powder measure, same method to start the ball, same pressure to seat the ball and so on. Any variation in the process yields different results.
Your test for fun is good and you’ve proven your original method is more accurate - stay with it.

Dutch7 said:

For accuracy you must do everything the same, (pause for importance) every time. Same pour into the powder measure, same method to start the ball, same pressure to seat the ball and so on. Any variation in the process yields different results.
Your test for fun is good and you’ve proven your original method is more accurate - stay with it.

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The spread on both groups are about the same, just 4 shots on bottom makes it look much better. Why it's to the left beats me, wind maybe. Probably won't change my ways to a bouncer.

With all the variables involved in shooting, the groups look for all intents and purposes the same size to me. What if you don't have a range rod? Seems like bouncing would be the way to go then.

I always let it bounce a couple of times. Gives me peace of mind that all is good before I fire it.

It's always kinda nice to know the range to the target you shot. I have no idea why people leave that part out.

jd45 said:

It's always kinda nice to know the range to the target you shot. I have no idea why people leave that part out.

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flatcreek said:

Everything shot at 40 yd, 50 cal 50 gr 3f. The top 3 holes are bouncing the under barrel wood ramrod and the bottom 4 is pushing it down and tapping it once with a brass range rod ( my normal way

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There is your answer.

Try different powder charges. Vary up or down by 5 grains of powder. If it is available to you, try a different brand of powder. There are so many variables with these rifles. Experimenting is a part of the fun. Once you find the magical combination of powder, patch and ball, all the trials are worth the effort.

.

ord sgt said:

Try different powder charges. Vary up or down by 5 grains of powder. If it is available to you, try a different brand of powder. There are so many variables with these rifles. Experimenting is a part of the fun. Once you find the magical combination of powder, patch and ball, all the trials are worth the effort.

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Have tried Goex 2f, 3f and Swiss 2f, 3f from 50 to 65 gr. They all seem to shot pretty well as you go up in grains the group just goes up and the difference between Goex and Swiss is surprising. At 65 gr it really kicks only weighs 6 1/2 lb so I shot 50 gr for paper. I will probably move to 65 or 70 gr for white tail this fall.

I never understood the bounce. I see Jake from “everything black powder” keeps pounding til the ramrod bounces half way out the barrel then pulls it out. I’ve seen other guys do it too. Never understood if they were trying to smash the ball into the grooves or what.

I certainly do it less with the .480 ball, loads very easy with minimal push down the barrel.

For me, by my extensive chronograph and load development test results, faster velocity prints LOWER on paper. Stop being a 'barrel wanger', LOL!

The best shooters as well as me, do not bounce the ram rod on the loaded charge.

Flint62Smoothie said:

For me, by my extensive chronograph and load development test results, faster velocity prints LOWER on paper. Stop being a 'barrel wanger', LOL!

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Guess I'll have to chronograph them.

flatcreek said:

I'll chronograph them next chance I get, but I think the bounced ones that were hitting higher were going faster.

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Higher velocity spends less time in the barrel. Recoil begins as soon as the projectile begins accelerating, so the slower round is going to have more muzzle rise before the ball leaves the barrel.

Adam in WI said:

Higher velocity spends less time in the barrel. Recoil begins as soon as the projectile begins accelerating, so the slower round is going to have more muzzle rise before the ball leaves the barrel.

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Your reasoning makes sense, but for me with this rifle 65gr of swiss prints a few inches higher than 50gr at 40 yds and I assume the 65 gr is going faster.

flatcreek said:

Last night I read an old thread about bouncing the ramrod so today I gave it a try. Everything shot at 40 yd, 50 cal 50 gr 3f. The top 3 holes are bouncing the under barrel wood ramrod and the bottom 4 is pushing it down and tapping it once with a brass range rod ( my normal way of loading). What I see is the bounce made the velocity higher and maybe the push is a little more accurate. I figured the bounce would flatten the ball and make it fit tighter, intern giving more velocity and engage the rifling better. The bounce definitely raised POI as to the bottom being more accurate, well that's a question mark as I'm not the greatest shot in the world.
Just for fun, Phil

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Bounce if you must, but personally question what the practice does or doesn’t do. Does it make things better or solve a problem? Do you get a different sound based on the projectile or its hardness, maybe like a tuning fork? How many smokers or former smokers here smack or smacked a pack of cigarettes on the end of the pack to do whatever the smack is supposed to do? Believe the science is similar.

If you are looking for way to consistently apply loading force to a ramrod that doesn’t involve the human element (things like how hard do you bounce, what is the weight of your ramrod vs range rod, etc) maybe look for a KaDooty Ultimate Muzzleloading Tool, one of those documented muzzleloader wonder solutions looking for a problem to solve. Imagine any old new stock ones would bring a premium to the ramrod bouncing crowd.

I wonder if one needs extra bounces with a fouled bore? Maybe an extra bounce for each shot loaded and fired? Might be time for some additional in-depth testing?https://www.muzzleblasts.com/Library.MBO/V4N3.MBO/Articles.V4N3.MBO/A7.V4N3.MBO.shtml

Bounce at will.

I am from the old early 70's and seen it all. First it was always bounce the ramrod, then never bounce the ramrod. Never noticed much difference in groups and yes bouncing might seat the ball better if you are not watching. To my grandkids I always say to mark the ramrod to make sure an exact measurement is there, but when building up a load or newbies always bounce the ramrod to make sure the load is seated properly. I even read an article that said after extensive research, bouncing the ramrod was more accurate on round balls. 99 out of 100 of us will never see a difference unless you bulge a barrel because of fouling with a false sense of a tight bullet on the powder. That gap between the powder and the bullet is the only reason I say bounce it until you're experienced.