Help me figure out what guns are this photo

Help me figure out what guns are in this photo mainly interested in the handguns. These ole boys the Reno Bros committed the world's first train robbery Oct 6 1866 in Seymour Indiana in Jackson County Indiana. I know they committed the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd train robberies long before the James gang did. I adore my local history and Jackson Co is filled with such. Anyway I THINK the ole boy sitting in the chair to the right has two Colt 1860 due to the backstrap being longer but what do you think? The fella standing on the left the handle is not as long so thinking that could be a Colt 1851 Navy. What do yall think?

J.B. Arthur said:

Help me figure out what guns are in this photo mainly interested in the handguns. These ole boys the Reno Bros committed the world's first train robbery Oct 6 1866 in Seymour Indiana in Jackson County Indiana. I know they committed the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd train robberies long before the James gang did. I adore my local history and Jackson Co is filled with such. Anyway I THINK the ole boy sitting in the chair to the right has two Colt 1860 due to the backstrap being longer but what do you think? The fella standing on the left the handle is not as long so thinking that could be a Colt 1851 Navy. What do yall think?View attachment 350494

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All I can say is the picture was taken a few years later than 1866.
I see a belt with cartridge loops, a 50-70 trapdoor Springfield, and a possible double-action cartridge revolver.

These types of photographs were staged in photographers' studios, mostly. Whether or not the firearms in the picture were what they actually used in events is doubtful to me. Props were on hand to be displayed - we see many examples in photos of uniformed soldiers/sailors/etc. still floating around with guns/knives/etc. evident that didn't walk in the studio with the subject (s).

They're fun and interesting, but historically accurate, possibly not. Even Matthew Brady staged a few. Photographers typically had galleries where, for small fee, people could walk around and view all sorts of pictures.

The first train robbery was in Randolph County Missouri at the city of Allen in August 1861. Capt. Poindexter a Confederate Officer, took the money from a train of the N.E. Missouri R.R. The money had been taken by Union authorities from the bank in Fayette Missouri. The money was returned to the bank by Capt. Poindexter.
Poindexter possessed other skills, a persuasiveness of word and manner whose value his superiors recognized. Soon after Wilson's Creek, the Captain was detached on recruiting duty, returning to his home country in and around Randolph County. There his first action of note was on the sultry afternoon of August 28, 1861. Leading a small detachment of Confederate troops, he held up the North Missouri Railroad at Allen. They reportedly came away with three trunks of money, totaling $100,000 in coin, which belonged to the Missouri State Bank in Fayette. A subsequent newspaper article revealed that the money shipment was engineered by a Unionist "committee," in an attempt to spirit the coin out of Missouri, and away from the potential hands of Secessionists. An odd twist to an odd story is that Poindexter's Rebel rabble is subsequently reported as having returned the money to the Fayette bank. Peculiarities aside, this may be the first train robbery in American history.

I kinda feel foolish by posting this photo but glad I did as well. There's no way this is the Reno bros then. Three of the brothers were dragged out of jail cells by vigilantes that broke into the New Albany Indiana jail and hung in 1868.

J.B. Arthur said:

I kinda feel foolish by posting this photo but glad I did as well. There's no way this is the Reno bros then. Three of the brothers were dragged out of jail cells by vigilantes that broke into the New Albany Indiana jail and hung in 1868.

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No need to feel foolish! I joined this forum to learn and you can’t learn without asking questions. A lot of kind knowledgeable people here.

sheriff john said:

These types of photographs were staged in photographers' studios, mostly. Whether or not the firearms in the picture were what they actually used in events is doubtful to me. Props were on hand to be displayed - we see many examples in photos of uniformed soldiers/sailors/etc. still floating around with guns/knives/etc. evident that didn't walk in the studio with the subject (s).

They're fun and interesting, but historically accurate, possibly not. Even Matthew Brady staged a few. Photographers typically had galleries where, for small fee, people could walk around and view all sorts of pictures.

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You are spot on about the studio props.
Alexander Gardiner ( one of Matthew Brady’s competitors during the Civil War ) was notorious for staging bodies, weapons, and equipment on battlefields after the shooting stopped.

Edit: double post .

Hey I appreciate it. Reason I feel foolish is posting a photo of what is supposed to be the Reno Bros at least a couple of them and its not them at all. I adore my local history and have never seen this photo until fairly recently in an article about the Reno Bros. There are a couple photos of two of the brothers but very poor quality. I don't care for misinformation and I don't care even more for me being part of that misinformation.

smoothshooter said:

All I can say is the picture was taken a few years later than 1866.
I see a belt with cartridge loops, a 50-70 trapdoor Springfield, and a possible double-action cartridge revolver.

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He is right , a cartridge belt in 1866? And how do you figure it's the Reno Brothers?

Salt River Johnny said:

The first train robbery was in Randolph County Missouri at the city of Allen in August 1861. Capt. Poindexter a Confederate Officer, took the money from a train of the N.E. Missouri R.R. The money had been taken by Union authorities from the bank in Fayette Missouri. The money was returned to the bank by Capt. Poindexter.
Poindexter possessed other skills, a persuasiveness of word and manner whose value his superiors recognized. Soon after Wilson's Creek, the Captain was detached on recruiting duty, returning to his home country in and around Randolph County. There his first action of note was on the sultry afternoon of August 28, 1861. Leading a small detachment of Confederate troops, he held up the North Missouri Railroad at Allen. They reportedly came away with three trunks of money, totaling $100,000 in coin, which belonged to the Missouri State Bank in Fayette. A subsequent newspaper article revealed that the money shipment was engineered by a Unionist "committee," in an attempt to spirit the coin out of Missouri, and away from the potential hands of Secessionists. An odd twist to an odd story is that Poindexter's Rebel rabble is subsequently reported as having returned the money to the Fayette bank. Peculiarities aside, this may be the first train robbery in American history.

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Eutycus said:

He is right , a cartridge belt in 1866? And how do you figure it's the Reno Brothers?

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Eutycus said:

He is right , a cartridge belt in 1866? And how do you figure it's the Reno Brothers?

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Due to seeing it in an article about them with the photo above. Only photos I've known of the couple bros are poor quality and I AdoubleSumed it was them. Thus me saying again I feel foolish for posting such but I'm also grateful as well. Like said I adore local history truly do but I want that history to be correct for my own knowledge and those behind me that are interested in such.. I noticed the cartridge belt but I was focusing on those pistol grip and backstraps so much I didn't make the connection. Plus I got percussion pistols on my mind cause I'm in cap and ball mode trying to learn everything I can. Sound legit? It is. Although one of these guys could be John Reno tho as he went to prison early on ( which saved him from suffering the fate of his other brothers being hung by the neck from vigilantes.

Salt River Johnny said:

The first train robbery was in Randolph County Missouri at the city of Allen in August 1861. Capt. Poindexter a Confederate Officer, took the money from a train of the N.E. Missouri R.R. The money had been taken by Union authorities from the bank in Fayette Missouri. The money was returned to the bank by Capt. Poindexter.
Poindexter possessed other skills, a persuasiveness of word and manner whose value his superiors recognized. Soon after Wilson's Creek, the Captain was detached on recruiting duty, returning to his home country in and around Randolph County. There his first action of note was on the sultry afternoon of August 28, 1861. Leading a small detachment of Confederate troops, he held up the North Missouri Railroad at Allen. They reportedly came away with three trunks of money, totaling $100,000 in coin, which belonged to the Missouri State Bank in Fayette. A subsequent newspaper article revealed that the money shipment was engineered by a Unionist "committee," in an attempt to spirit the coin out of Missouri, and away from the potential hands of Secessionists. An odd twist to an odd story is that Poindexter's Rebel rabble is subsequently reported as having returned the money to the Fayette bank. Peculiarities aside, this may be the first train robbery in American history.

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Hey @Salt River Johnny , I appreciate you posting this. Was this train moving or was it stationary? I'll respond more once my fingers take a rest from this phone haha

Apparently they forced the train to stop from what I understand.

FWIW, the first trapdoor conversions of the Springfield was in 1865 I believe, a 58 rimfire, followed by the 50-70 in 1866, still a converted muzzle loader with the hinge screwed to the barrel. The 1868 model had its own receiver, longer than the later 1873s.

Cartridge belts were handmade pretty early on, Im fairly certain with a rusty memory that the people using early cartridige guns were making or had them made in the 1866 period. The book packing iron has better info.

There were DA percussion revolvers (Starr, Webleys, and others). Im not familiar enough with them to say from the not very clear picture what model it is, or if its cartridge or percussion, or cartridge conversion.

Keep in mind 44 rimfire cartridges had been in steady use since 1860 with the Henry rifle. I believe (more rusty memory) that the early cartridge conversions of percussion guns were in 44 rimfire, some done by gunsmiths.

Malamute said:

FWIW, the first trapdoor conversions of the Springfield was in 1865 I believe, a 58 rimfire, followed by the 50-70 in 1866, still a converted muzzle loader with the hinge screwed to the barrel. The 1868 model had its own receiver, longer than the later 1873s.

Cartridge belts were handmade pretty early on, Im fairly certain with a rusty memory that the people using early cartridige guns were making or had them made in the 1866 period. The book packing iron has better info.

There were DA percussion revolvers (Starr, Webleys, and others). Im not familiar enough with them to say from the not very clear picture what model it is, or if its cartridge or percussion, or cartridge conversion.

Keep in mind 44 rimfire cartridges had been in steady use since 1860 with the Henry rifle. I believe (more rusty memory) that the early cartridge conversions of percussion guns were in 44 rimfire, some done by gunsmiths.

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Very interesting

Malamute said:

FWIW, the first trapdoor conversions of the Springfield was in 1865 I believe, a 58 rimfire, followed by the 50-70 in 1866, still a converted muzzle loader with the hinge screwed to the barrel. The 1868 model had its own receiver, longer than the later 1873s.

Cartridge belts were handmade pretty early on, Im fairly certain with a rusty memory that the people using early cartridige guns were making or had them made in the 1866 period. The book packing iron has better info.

There were DA percussion revolvers (Starr, Webleys, and others). Im not familiar enough with them to say from the not very clear picture what model it is, or if its cartridge or percussion, or cartridge conversion.

Keep in mind 44 rimfire cartridges had been in steady use since 1860 with the Henry rifle. I believe (more rusty memory) that the early cartridge conversions of percussion guns were in 44 rimfire, some done by gunsmiths.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

Ok here. The Reno Bros pulled off the first three peacetime train robberies in the U.S.. The first was from a moving train when they robbed and broke into the Adam's express car in Seymour IN on Oct 6, 1866. I have four books ranging from 1886-1977 that state these murderous scum committed the world's first, second, and third train robberies. I've researched this most of my life right along with everyone else but now enter the age of the internet. I hate to take the thunder from these hometown fellas but give the credit where the credit is due. The reno Bros pulled off the first, second, third peacetime train robberies in the U.S. It's simply to much to type on a phone but it was a pretty big deal. Big enough to issue a presidential warrant from Johnson. Frank Reno had run to Canada where he was apprehended. Frank Reno agreed to expedition if he was kept safe from the vigilante committee. His protection was assured. Ya, will that didn't do him a lick of good as once he was in federal custody he was quickly hanged by local vigilantes committee. Canada threw a fit over that anf it became an international issue. Most of the gang and Bros met a similar fate from hanging trees and from the rafters of the New Albany Indiana jail. Folk's didn't mess around back then theyd overtake authoritiesand drag you out your jail cell.. John Reno the brother who was in on the first train robbery was only spared the noose because he was convicted and serving 25 year prison sentence in Missouri for robbing a courthouse there... that's the short version.