Maximum loads for 1858 Remington

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nick_1 said:
I just received a 220g .456 conical mold from lee. immediately cast 64 conicals. Its a LOT more lead usage than .454 RB! I have no idea how this is going to work?? On the Lee site it was sold as a conical specifically for .44 cap and ball revolvers. I don't have any real bullet lube yet but will use bore butter untill my Lee bullet lube arives from TOTW.. plan to load with my standard 25g spout of T7 on the bench with my bench loader. How do you get them to go in the cylinder straight???
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The base of that bullet should be rebated and will drop into the chamber mouth a couple tenths of an inch. It should be pretty darn straight at that point. Some people load off the gun, others use the ram on the gun with good results. This bullet can be very accurate.
 
Walkabout said:
Where did you aquire flat point bullets? Thanks
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Bullet Design Details Accurate Molds.png


Here’s a mold available from Accurate Molds. It’s a dandy and can be ordered for a specific revolver…
 
ppg1949 said:
Hopefully one of the pistolero members will jump in. Just from what I read, it scares me. Just from my experience with Remington’s, with 30 grains your pushing the limit especially with a bullet. For that type of powder charge you should get a Dragoon or Walker. Also, I hope you talking about a steel frame 1858. Good luck and be safe.
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I've always read that whatever volume of Black Powder fits in the cylinder, with the ball seated so as not to interfere with cylinder rotation, is OK. Seems simple.
 
I shot my new lee .456 220g conicals today. not even a chance of seating them. I champherd my cylinders which helped but still the only way to get them started straight is with a leather mallet. they print about the same as RB out of ech respective cylinder, the one I keep on the gun shoots pretty tight and leads easier. Spare cylinder loads harder and shoots looser than the beat up one. The conicals shoot much higher than RB and hit much harder. sends my steel flying like nobody's buisness. . Pros. hits hard, cons harder to shoot accuratly. hits a ft high. much harder to load. harder to shoot accuratly at speed. uses almost twice as much lead.
 
nick_1 said:
I shot my new lee .456 220g conicals today. not even a chance of seating them. I champherd my cylinders which helped but still the only way to get them started straight is with a leather mallet. they print about the same as RB out of ech respective cylinder, the one I keep on the gun shoots pretty tight and leads easier. Spare cylinder loads harder and shoots looser than the beat up one. The conicals shoot much higher than RB and hit much harder. sends my steel flying like nobody's buisness. . Pros. hits hard, cons harder to shoot accuratly. hits a ft high. much harder to load. harder to shoot accuratly at speed. uses almost twice as much lead.
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The Lee 220 grn is meant for the Ruger. They make a 200 grn RN meant for the repros that drop a little smaller.

Even .456” is a bit too big for the Ruger. My chambers run .453” and when using a bullet with driving bands like we have there’s no need to shave a ring. Just like with modern stuff it merely needs to be .001” over chamber.
 
smoothshooter said:
It is impossible to overload it as long as you are using real black powder. Even 4 FFG.
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Provided there is a bullet to move and its not contained in a pipe bomb, granulated BP tops out at around 20K PSI, 777 & BH209 got to about 25.

If you overload it you will get a big muzzle flash from all the powder that didn't burn when still inside the barrel. Loose powder is very safe.

If you use Pellets those can go to 40+or more. But Pellets & Sabots & such belong on the other board.
 
So it seems like I need to buy the .450 mold. This game is getting more expensive by the min.
 
Todd Hayseed said:
This chart covers it. Apparently I can't go beyond that on this board
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Hmmmmmmmmmm . . . I think there's some info missing . . . I'm pretty sure you won't get 357Mag. or 44Mag pressure with cap guns using loose powder and ball . . .
Are you a reloader?

Mike
 
The chart shows the maximum pressure you can get from loose powder is 26K, and that is Goex 4Fg used in a rifle. .357 mag goes to 44k, so you are correct.

Those two spikes are from 777 pellets, not loose powder. According to the chart it seems you CAN get dangerous pressures from compressing those. I do not use pelletized powder in anything and never have, so I have no personal experience to draw from there. This chart is a bit old, I think KIK powder is no longer made, but it was one of the commercial black powder brands.
 
In a Pietta 1858, using that same Lee .456 bullet run through a push through .451" sizer.
The chambers are reamed .450" and then to .452"x3/8" deep so that the bullets slip in and align themselves. Settled on 27 grains of powder as optimal.
20 25 30 Lee 45 228.jpg


Next experiments are hopefully going to be a Pietta 1858 and an Old Army with .456" chambers and bullets designed to suit (which may end up being any .45 mold with the front drive band enlarged).
 
My ROA is most accurate with .457 round ball loads. 25-35gr for paper punching.

It also likes 230gr lead round nose .452 meant for SASS Wild Bunch .45acp shooting. 30-35gr of 3F Swiss or T7, whatever commercial lube is on the bullets, scant wipe of T17 or Bore Butter over the cylinder mouth. Decent whitetail or small feral hog load.

For full size feral hogs, 40gr of 3F and the .457 round ball. I tap the powder measure until it can’t hold any more. And compress the load seating the ball. This one has painful recoil, so Ruger only.
 
I had issues with the lee .45 conicals backing out under recoil and jamming the cylinder.
Also were a pita to seat straight the Kerr from Erasgone loads easily,straight and stays in during discharge.
I still prefer roundball for most things.
 
SeaBee133 said:
My ROA is most accurate with .457 round ball loads. 25-35gr for paper punching.

It also likes 230gr lead round nose .452 meant for SASS Wild Bunch .45acp shooting. 30-35gr of 3F Swiss or T7, whatever commercial lube is on the bullets, scant wipe of T17 or Bore Butter over the cylinder mouth. Decent whitetail or small feral hog load.

For full size feral hogs, 40gr of 3F and the .457 round ball. I tap the powder measure until it can’t hold any more. And compress the load seating the ball. This one has painful recoil, so Ruger only.
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I’m a bit curious why you’d chose a ball and max charge for full size hogs.

I’m working on finding both my NMA and ROAs more accurate hunting sporting grade powder charge and filling in the majority of the excess with lead. It looks to be 30-32.5 grns and 35-37.5 grns with the excess giving me a bullet around 230-235 grns, maybe a little more, when creating my wide meplat and small lube groove design. My NMA should be akin to a standard .45 ACP and my ROA like hot +Ps.

Kaido’s 240 grn version of the Lee 255 grn bullet and a max charge of T7 went nose to tail through an adult FL hog. It looked to be about the size of the one I shot long ago, adult but not large weighing about 150 lbs or so. Not sure what all it went through, but I doubt a ball would travel nearly as deep.
 
rodwha said:
I’m a bit curious why you’d chose a ball and max charge for full size hogs.

I’m working on finding both my NMA and ROAs more accurate hunting sporting grade powder charge and filling in the majority of the excess with lead. It looks to be 30-32.5 grns and 35-37.5 grns with the excess giving me a bullet around 230-235 grns, maybe a little more, when creating my wide meplat and small lube groove design. My NMA should be akin to a standard .45 ACP and my ROA like hot +Ps.

Kaido’s 240 grn version of the Lee 255 grn bullet and a max charge of T7 went nose to tail through an adult FL hog. It looked to be about the size of the one I shot long ago, adult but not large weighing about 150 lbs or so. Not sure what all it went through, but I doubt a ball would travel nearly as deep.
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Tested it with both round ball and 230gr .45acp cast bullets. Both will kill, but the ball is more accurate. The ROA is my close quarters brush gun.
If I absolutely “have” to fill the freezer, the ROA is relegated to back up status. 12-16-20g slugs, 7.62x39, .50 or .54 round ball, or 12g buckshot take primary role.
 
SeaBee133 said:
Tested it with both round ball and 230gr .45acp cast bullets. Both will kill, but the ball is more accurate. The ROA is my close quarters brush gun.
If I absolutely “have” to fill the freezer, the ROA is relegated to back up status. 12-16-20g slugs, 7.62x39, .50 or .54 round ball, or 12g buckshot take primary role.
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I’ve tested several different projectiles along with a ball, and they’ve all grouped the same for me at 15 yds offhand in a semi weaver stance. Granted I’m no pistolero. This is what has led me down the path to find the most accurate charge and create a bullet for it.

Maybe with a good rest I could use a revolver as a primary hunting weapon. Otherwise it’s more an up close and personal thing, and even for hogs I think I’d prefer my 5.5” NMA to my 7.5” and heavier Ruger. I have often contemplated cutting it down to be more handy but I enjoy it like it is.
 

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