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Joel2937

32 Cal
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Hello Everyone,
I'm new to flintlocks. I built a Kibler .45cal SMR kit. I have shot the rifle ( which is a blast!!), I would like some advise on what ball, patch and powder charge combination would be the most accurate? Thank you for the help. ( I'm currently using .440 balls, .010 patch, and powder 40 grains to 60).
 
Are you using FF or FFF powder? Your rifle may like 3F. A lot of the 45 cal folks use that and have stated it's more accurate. I'm working up a load for a new 45 cal I have. So far I've just used 2F, but next range outing I will try 3F
 
i use 70 grains of FFF a .445 ball with a .015 patch for targets. 90 grains for hunting
 

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Shooting my Kibler .45 cal SMR I use a 0.445 ball with a 0.010 patch and 60 gr of 3F powder.

OP, your ball and your load seems to be to be a bit undersized. Tighter fit is better, though load depends on group results. If you don't have to use some force to start your ball then either your ball is undersized or your patch is too thin.
 
I generally start with an .018 patch on everything.

You can start with 50 grns. Shoot three for a group at 50 yards, go up 5 grns at a time shooting a 3 shot group each time. Whatever load shoots the smallest group. I measure and log all the group sizes. I do this twice on separate days. I then sight my guns in at 82 yards.

This should be done on the calmest wind day possible.

Each barrel is a law unto itself.
 
Joel2937 said:
Hello Everyone,
I'm new to flintlocks. I built a Kibler .45cal SMR kit. I have shot the rifle ( which is a blast!!), I would like some advise on what ball, patch and powder charge combination would be the most accurate? Thank you for the help. ( I'm currently using .440 balls, .010 patch, and powder 40 grains to 60).
Click to expand...
In my Kibler I use the .440 ball and O.020 lubed patch. It’s tight but more accurate that 0.018. Your 0.010 is way too thin. The load that worked the best is 55 grains of 3f Goex. The velocity is 1,900 fps.

The swamped barrels are particular as far as powder charge. They whip around quite a bit versus a straight barrel with no taper.

Picture is 25 yards.
 

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no offence to anyone, but 25-yard groups mean nothing. you need to shoot 50yds, even 40yds would tell you something, but anything will shoot at 25 so that won't help. all the 45s i have shot over the years shoots a .445 ball and an .18 patch with 55gr. of 3f outstanding, and don't discount 2f either,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
olskool said:
no offence to anyone, but 25-yard groups mean nothing. you need to shoot 50yds, even 40yds would tell you something, but anything will shoot at 25 so that won't help. all the 45s i have shot over the years shoots a .445 ball and an .18 patch with 55gr. of 3f outstanding, and don't discount 2f either,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Click to expand...
I agree. I do find that it is always too windy for round ball at 100 yards.
 
Siringo said:
In my Kibler I use the .440 ball and O.020 lubed patch. It’s tight but more accurate that 0.018. Your 0.010 is way too thin. The load that worked the best is 55 grains of 3f Goex. The velocity is 1,900 fps.

The swamped barrels are particular as far as powder charge. They whip around quite a bit versus a straight barrel with no taper.

Picture is 25 yards.
Click to expand...
Thank You!!! I will give that a try!!!
 
Hi Joel. What some of the others have said is true. Even with Traditions, CVA, Pedersoli, etc. each gun is an individual, including the mass produced factory guns of the same model which may look alike but shoot differently. I'm sure you probably already know your patch and ball combo is .460, a .440 ball and .010 patch since the patch thickness is on both sides of the ball once it's loaded. When I first started with muzzle loaders in 1980 I bought oodles and oodles of books on the subject and one thing I read several times was the groove to groove diameter in rifled barrels. The patch and ball combo should at least be somewhat close to filling that groove to groove diameter; the ball will deform somewhat upon firing, which is called obturation. I have always started experimenting with patch and ball combos by measuring the groove to groove diameter. You could also see what the barrel manufacturer lists as the groove to groove diameter for specific calibers. I don't know what the primary purpose for your rifle is. If it's primarily for hunting you would probably like the looser combo with the .440 ball. A cloth patch compresses more easily than a lead ball. If it's target shooting and competition generally the tighter combo with the .445 would be better. I use the looser combo with guns that are primarily for hunting because it's easier to load with the wooden ramrod. Alot of guys in our club at matches have used such tight combos they start the ball with a mallet, and I have done the same. As far as powder charges are concerned, the old rule of thumb is 1 grain per caliber, so 45 grains for a .45 in that example. Of course these are recommended starting points. The fun is in the experimenting and taking the time to do so.
 
Flint1 said:
Hi Joel. What some of the others have said is true. Even with Traditions, CVA, Pedersoli, etc. each gun is an individual, including the mass produced factory guns of the same model which may look alike but shoot differently. I'm sure you probably already know your patch and ball combo is .460, a .440 ball and .010 patch since the patch thickness is on both sides of the ball once it's loaded. When I first started with muzzle loaders in 1980 I bought oodles and oodles of books on the subject and one thing I read several times was the groove to groove diameter in rifled barrels. The patch and ball combo should at least be somewhat close to filling that groove to groove diameter; the ball will deform somewhat upon firing, which is called obturation. I have always started experimenting with patch and ball combos by measuring the groove to groove diameter. You could also see what the barrel manufacturer lists as the groove to groove diameter for specific calibers. I don't know what the primary purpose for your rifle is. If it's primarily for hunting you would probably like the looser combo with the .440 ball. A cloth patch compresses more easily than a lead ball. If it's target shooting and competition generally the tighter combo with the .445 would be better. I use the looser combo with guns that are primarily for hunting because it's easier to load with the wooden ramrod. Alot of guys in our club at matches have used such tight combos they start the ball with a mallet, and I have done the same. As far as powder charges are concerned, the old rule of thumb is 1 grain per caliber, so 45 grains for a .45 in that example. Of course these are recommended starting points. The fun is in the experimenting and taking the time to do so.
Click to expand...
Thank You very much this is great information and much appreciated!!!!
 

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