Flintlock or percussion for a first purchase?

Nabonidus62 said:

Hi guys, I'm finally getting round to buying my first muzzle loader after toying with the idea for a couple of years. (Going with a reproduction from Pedersoli).

I've decided on a smoothbore for the versatility but not sure if I want to go flint or percussion.

What are the pros and cons of each and is one more beginner friendly than the other?

I'll be taking the gun hunting for birds and deer and will also be using it for target shooting if you'd like to know.

From Pedersoli's catalogue I'll likely decide on one of these (Still open to suggestions though):

- Indian Trade Gun

- Brown Bess

- Carabinieri 1814

-1816 Harpers Ferry (Colt Conversion)

If anyone has some advice that might help my decision that would be great.

Cheers.

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I wojld go with a flint gun, primarily because of the cap shortage s
That doesn’t Show any signs of getting better.

thixotropy said:

Just got back from a two day woods walk match. I own a couple flinters. One custom, one a Lyman. One guy on my 'team' of five was new and had borrowed a T/C flint that was well maintained, his average was one ignition out of 3 tries, he was getting spark just not ignition. He showed marvelous fortitude as most people I know probably would have wrapped the rifle around a tree at about halfway through the sixteen stations. Another guy, an 'old hand' had a new to him trade smoothbore flint, he hit one out of sixteen. The third guy also had a multitude of issues with his. The weather was cool and dry. The second day a different group similar deal. Did not have a guy shooting a rock crusher did not have problems. I have been with guys who do have rifles that perform flawlessly and have kicked my butt accuracy wise. One fellow took top gun with a flinter the second day. If you have a huge capacity for aggravation choose flint by all means. I shot a Dixie poor boy capgun with a Japanese barrel, came in third out 25 shooters and did not have a shot not go off. Finding/paying for caps may be an issue, but I heard an ugly rumor at Friendship that Goex may start manufacturing number 11's. My two cents worth as unpopular as it will be.

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I’ll bet the guys with the ignition problems were shooting guns with patent breeches.
If someone is going to use one of those things, they must understand what a patent breech actually looks like, and how to properly clean it. Most don’t.

Yes, I’m a patent breech hater, and am very familiar with their history and why they came into being in the first place.

Banjoman said:

Did the young Daniel Boone start with a percussion gun before learning to shoot a flintlock?

Not trying to be a smart aleck, just throwing out a question.

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Nope, didn't exist at that time.

When I compare the two types of ignition systems, I always refer to the flint lock as being the art of traditional muzzleloading. The percussion lock is the triumph of technology to make an easier to manufacture and more reliable ignition system.

A percussion lock can be reliable as it comes from the factory. I have not come across any flint lock that doesn't benefit from tuning the lock for smooth functioning. This is as simple as smoothing all the burrs off the rubbing parts or as complex as smoothing the mating parts and balancing the springs to flattening the pan cover of the frizzen to the pan and adjusting the cock for a better scraping strike angle on the frizzen face. Getting one's flint lock properly tuned is one of the reasons that a percussion lock system is often better for beginning the traditional muzzleloading experience.

Grenadier1758 said:

When I compare the two types of ignition systems, I always refer to the flint lock as being the art of traditional muzzleloading. The percussion lock is the triumph of technology to make an easier to manufacture and more reliable ignition system.

A percussion lock can be reliable as it comes from the factory. I have not come across any flint lock that doesn't benefit from tuning the lock for smooth functioning. This is as simple as smoothing all the burrs off the rubbing parts or as complex as smoothing the mating parts and balancing the springs to flattening the pan cover of the frizzen to the pan and adjusting the cock for a better scraping strike angle on the frizzen face. Getting one's flint lock properly tuned is one of the reasons that a percussion lock system is often better for beginning the traditional muzzleloading experience.

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There are poor quality percussion locks, too. I recall a Bedford county rifle I had about 50 years ago with a Russ Hamm lock that was not dependable, and at that time I didn't know how to fix it.

What are you using it for? If hunting, what is lawful? My first purchase and mostly all I buy are flintlocks but because of our flintlock only season here in PA. There was no other muzzy season then, so I went straight into the flintlock because of getting the extra season to hunt. I would guess, if it was an option, I would have opted to go percussion with it's presumed shorter learning curve.

A percussion gun will give you a LOT less problems.

Banjoman said:

Did the young Daniel Boone start with a percussion gun before learning to shoot a flintlock?

Not trying to be a smart aleck, just throwing out a question.

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The young Daniel Boone and everyone else of his time used the best technology available, just as the soldiers storming the beaches at Normandy carried Garands and not M16s. That was what I was alluding to in my post when I said I had always heard way back when I started it was easier to learn the percussion system because it was supposed to be an improvement over the flint system, hence the flint being referred to as "advanced" not in terms of evolution of the system but in the evolution of the new muzzle loading enthusiast. I don't mean to be bashing you but the new shooter today has options Daniel Boone did not.

I’m going to chime in again. The OP is in New Zealand. He needs to stay with what he can get support and assistance with locally. Are any of you Daniel Boone direct descendants planning on going to New Zealand to instruct the OP on the nuances and proper use of a flintlock? The only forum member that might be there that comes to mind is our old friend @Rudyard, if he is close by and available.

Nabonidus62 said:

Hi guys, I'm finally getting round to buying my first muzzle loader after toying with the idea for a couple of years. (Going with a reproduction from Pedersoli).

I've decided on a smoothbore for the versatility but not sure if I want to go flint or percussion.

What are the pros and cons of each and is one more beginner friendly than the other?

I'll be taking the gun hunting for birds and deer and will also be using it for target shooting if you'd like to know.

From Pedersoli's catalogue I'll likely decide on one of these (Still open to suggestions though):

- Indian Trade Gun

- Brown Bess

- Carabinieri 1814

-1816 Harpers Ferry (Colt Conversion)

If anyone has some advice that might help my decision that would be great.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Depends on your patience and persistence levels. Need more of both to start out with flint. The percussion cap makes it a bunch simpler.

As a new shooter of Black Powder firearms I would recommend percussion.
I have seen flintlocks frustrate newbs to the point of giving up. Flintlocks are not as hard to figure out as some seem to make it be, but in a world filled with folks used to instant gratification a touchy lock and an improperly knapped flint can make it seem impossible to one not accustomed to having to take the time to get a thing to work just so.

Percussion is much more user friendly for the newbie.

Flintlocks are really cool and if you can find a source of flint you will never be stuck not shooting due to a lack of caps. Knapping out a flint for your smokepole is a lot faster and cheaper than making homemade caps.

Start with a flint.

MUCH funner to shoot. Flints are abundant. Caps are nonexistant. No challenge or reward in the craplocks.

Smokey Plainsman said:

Start with a flint.

MUCH funner to shoot. Flints are abundant. Caps are nonexistant. No challenge or reward in the craplocks.

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https://www.powdervalley.com/product/cci-11-percussion-caps-1000/

Flint1 said:

The young Daniel Boone and everyone else of his time used the best technology available, just as the soldiers storming the beaches at Normandy carried Garands and not M16s. That was what I was alluding to in my post when I said I had always heard way back when I started it was easier to learn the percussion system because it was supposed to be an improvement over the flint system, hence the flint being referred to as "advanced" not in terms of evolution of the system but in the evolution of the new muzzle loading enthusiast. I don't mean to be bashing you but the new shooter today has options Daniel Boone did not.

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No worries, just opinions. Let’s see now,,,New Zealand,,,ain’t that south of Chattanooga?

Lots of opinion...Myself, I would go percussion as long as you can find or make your own caps. The surer ignition removes a big part of the learning curve. 2nd....if possible I would go with a patent breech...a barrel that is easily removeable by pulling out the keys on the barrel. It makes cleaning much easier and less of a chore for learning. Some may argue it, but it is much easier to pull the barrel and stick it in hot water, scrub/oil, etc. then to carefully scrub the barrel when it is fixed in the stock...not to mention handling a 36" or so barrel and cleaning rod is much easier than a five or six foot long assembled arm.

I have a friend, yes, I do, I gave him a GPR in Flint. He had a lot of problems, and I doubt he still has it. He never became a BP shooter

Start with Percussion, if caps and other item are available.

Smokey Plainsman said:

Start with a flint.

MUCH funner to shoot. Flints are abundant. Caps are nonexistant. No challenge or reward in the craplocks.

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From your avatar it looks like you might be using a craplock. Maybe you need one of these.

Get what floats your boat and enjoy, I started with a flintlock and got a percussion later,Think flintlock takes a little longer to master.

As said above .. If New Zealand is anything like the US in shooting supply frequency I would see what supplies are available on a fairly routine basis. Then stock up on them then get the gun. It sucks to have a new gun and not be able to get needed items to shoot it

Yes, as a practical matter the supply issue would dictate my choice.

If caps are spotty then Flintlock, as you won't need them

If real black powder is short, then caplock if caps are around, as a flintlock will not work with substitutes for holy black.

If neither is available or both can be cut off, then the flintlock is the obvious choice as given simple and usually readily available or makeable Sulphur, saltpeter and charcoal, you can make your own powder if legal to do so there. Making caps is a bit more problematic.

Flintlock would be my personal first choice as it possesses a more "self-sufficient" feel and is historically linked and romanticized with the creation of my country.

Either requires some adaptations from cartridge guns, but one is no more difficult to master than the other, given quality locks, and you should be fine with Pedersoli in that aspect.

Nabonidus62 said:

I'm not totally sure what most NZ shooters prefer but from what I've seen percussion seems to be more popular.

I own a lee enfield no.4 which I've been using for around half a year and I've also done quite a bit of shooting in the past with a 5 millimeter rifle and a double barrel shotgun.

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Round the world there are far more percussion guns than flint, as it is more modern and ignition is less of a problem, largely due to their ability to use substitutes like Pyrodex, which are all that is available in some places. In remote places where caps and substitute powders are at a premium, then flints rule.

I have a couple of Lee Enfields myself and have found them an accurate and interesting rifle, especially in their historic significance.

smokedout said:

As said above .. If New Zealand is anything like the US in shooting supply frequency I would see what supplies are available on a fairly routine basis. Then stock up on them then get the gun. It sucks to have a new gun and not be able to get needed items to shoot it

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Yeah I have checked and there seems to be an adequate supply of caps here.