The LIES and confusion of Tung Oil wood finish

A very informative video on tung oil and tung oil finishes.

Hi,
He has done little to help people except he does discuss some of the many "tung" oil labeled concoctions sold in hardware stores like Minwax tung oil finish and Formby's tung oil finish that have little or no tung oil in them. He completely ignores polymerized tung oil products which are heat treated and mixed with solvents. Tru Oil is very similar but uses polymerized linseed oil mixed with solvents rather than tung oil. Using pure tung oil on a gunstock would be a mess just like using pure linseed oil. It would take forever to dry and offers little good weather resistance. However, that pure oil mixed with a varnish creates an excellent finish that dries in 24 hours and is weather resistant. I use Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil to great advantage. The key word is "polymerized" meaning the tung oil was heated and mixed with solvents.

dave

@dave_person Do you use interior or exterior? Sealer or no?

Dusty_Traveler said:

@dave_person Do you use interior or exterior? Sealer or no?

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Hi,
Ignore the interior or exterior labels. Exterior usually means the finish has UV light blockers. It is what you might choose if you are painting the rails of a deck. The exterior finishes are just fine for gunstocks and virtually all finishes you guys use for guns would be classified as "interior". I usually do apply thinned first coats (often 50% mineral spirits) to act as a sealer of sorts. No finish penetrates very deeply but a couple of thinned first coats can soak in better in very dense woods such as maple and walnut. If you finish walnut using the sanding slurry grain sealer method, my first coats is mostly unthinned except it often has alkanet root stain infused in turpentine mixed with it, which thins it a little by default. I typically use Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil medium sheen. The medium sheen has a pretty shiny gloss so I often add mineral spirits to soften the sheen. Here are two examples in English walnut showing the unthinned finish medium sheen and a softened gloss using thinned finish.

medium sheen




softened sheen




dave

If the product is easy to use, doesn't require days in between coats, and produces a durable result that's pleasing to me, I DON'T CARE WHAT IT'S CALLED.

(awesome inlays, Dave!!!)

Woodwright said:

A very informative video on tung oil and tung oil finishes.

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If you’re going to use a 100% organic tuna oil linseed oil finish, you’ll need a few things.

1. Patience.
2. Good weather
3. More patience.


The organic finishes like tried and true and milk paint are fine finishes but the issue is the absorption and drying. You’ll often see the organic oils seap out for days on end until it’s dry, and once you’ve started with the organic oils, you have to continue using it. There are a few ways you can use organic finishes successfully however you’re moving away from the concept of being organic to a chemical based varnish.

You can mix in the raw oils with a varnish, spirts and some dries such as japan drier. This makes a faster drying finish however it does create additional complications of its own regarding bubbling, spotting and hazy spots. It can work, but it will work no better than a pre-made varnish, so why bother ?

Dave’s suggestion to use a polymerizing oil finish is best, no matter how much actual original product is in it, it gets the job done.

I wouldn’t use any kind of tuna oil on my work!

“If you’re going to use a 100% organic tuna oil linseed oil finish, you’ll need a few things.“

Phil Coffins said:

I wouldn’t use any kind of tuna oil on my work!
“If you’re going to use a 100% organic tuna oil linseed oil finish, you’ll need a few things.“

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LOL! I think there is a story that Hacker Martin mixed up varnishes made with some sort of fish oil because it was cheap and available. Supposedly, you can still smell the oil in the stocks.

dave

dave_person said:

Hi,
Ignore the interior or exterior labels. Exterior usually means the finish has UV light blockers. It is what you might choose if you are painting the rails of a deck. The exterior finishes are just fine for gunstocks and virtually all finishes you guys use for guns would be classified as "interior". I usually do apply thinned first coats (often 50% mineral spirits) to act as a sealer of sorts. No finish penetrates very deeply but a couple of thinned first coats can soak in better in very dense woods such as maple and walnut. If you finish walnut using the sanding slurry grain sealer method, my first coats is mostly unthinned except it often has alkanet root stain infused in turpentine mixed with it, which thins it a little by default. I typically use Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil medium sheen. The medium sheen has a pretty shiny gloss so I often add mineral spirits to soften the sheen. Here are two examples in English walnut showing the unthinned finish medium sheen and a softened gloss using thinned finish.

medium sheen

softened sheen

dave

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Nice work! The first one is beautiful but the last one is more suited for a riflr to me? You know opinions are like, you know the rest, every one has one! LOL!

dave_person said:

Hi,
Ignore the interior or exterior labels. Exterior usually means the finish has UV light blockers. It is what you might choose if you are painting the rails of a deck. The exterior finishes are just fine for gunstocks and virtually all finishes you guys use for guns would be classified as "interior". I usually do apply thinned first coats (often 50% mineral spirits) to act as a sealer of sorts. No finish penetrates very deeply but a couple of thinned first coats can soak in better in very dense woods such as maple and walnut. If you finish walnut using the sanding slurry grain sealer method, my first coats is mostly unthinned except it often has alkanet root stain infused in turpentine mixed with it, which thins it a little by default. I typically use Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil medium sheen. The medium sheen has a pretty shiny gloss so I often add mineral spirits to soften the sheen. Here are two examples in English walnut showing the unthinned finish medium sheen and a softened gloss using thinned finish.

medium sheen

softened sheen

dave

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That gun looks like it was made in Rivendell!
Jay

Tung oil lovers might like this. Looks like it wasn't common in this country as early as some might think.
https://foresthistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/2013_TungOil_Rise-and-Fall.pdf

Hi,
Tung oil was sometimes known as "China Oil". Although very ancient, it was not used in America until the 20th century. I don't think anyone using it today has any illusions it was used here in the 18th and 19th centuries. Then again neither was Permalyn, Waterlox, Tru Oil, Danish Oil, etc.

dave

1950DAVE said:

Tung oil lovers might like this. Looks like it wasn't common in this country as early as some might think.
https://foresthistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/2013_TungOil_Rise-and-Fall.pdf

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No certainly was not common, the more common finishing products were of course linseed oil(s), shellacs, various other nut oils, pine rosens (pitch), waxes etc.

I also suspect that each gunshop had its own ‘varnish’ recipe which could be many things, but essentially cooked into a formula.

The French military used a varnish that had yellowish tint and it closely resembles the varnish used on artwork, I ‘ve been able to observe it on many originals, I’ve found it on metal parts as well as the stocks.

dave_person said:

Hi,
Ignore the interior or exterior labels. Exterior usually means the finish has UV light blockers. It is what you might choose if you are painting the rails of a deck. The exterior finishes are just fine for gunstocks and virtually all finishes you guys use for guns would be classified as "interior". I usually do apply thinned first coats (often 50% mineral spirits) to act as a sealer of sorts. No finish penetrates very deeply but a couple of thinned first coats can soak in better in very dense woods such as maple and walnut. If you finish walnut using the sanding slurry grain sealer method, my first coats is mostly unthinned except it often has alkanet root stain infused in turpentine mixed with it, which thins it a little by default. I typically use Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil medium sheen. The medium sheen has a pretty shiny gloss so I often add mineral spirits to soften the sheen. Here are two examples in English walnut showing the unthinned finish medium sheen and a softened gloss using thinned finish.

medium sheen

softened sheen

dave

Click to expand...

After reading Dave’s post, I am more inclined to use a varnished infused Tung Oil vs straight Tung oil to finish my bare stock. I read conflicting views on pure Tung Oil. Some say easy, drys quickly, leaves a hard finish. Others says it takes forever and is not weather proof. A quart of Walrus pure Tung Oil I have on hand, claims excellent for outside furniture. These are conflicting at best. Moving on, the elder gentleman who gifted me the rifle, got wind I was finishing (refinishing) the rifle and told my wife he better not see a sheen on it. Further, that only BLO should be used. I would prefer not. What did the old timers use? Anyone’s guess I assume. I’m sure animal fat wasn’t out of the question. But I digress. I looked at the Sutherland Welles site. The least glossy would be my pick. Dave showed Gloss and medium gloss. Anyone with pics showing low gloss?

I’ve read here that original long guns were sealed with varnish. For my argument, that’s good news. I really don’t want to disappoint my friend who gifted me this rifle, but if I can argue that historical fact if true it’s a win win. Can anyone confirm this?

NavyDoc76-80 said:

I’ve read here that original long guns were sealed with varnish. For my argument, that’s good news. I really don’t want to disappoint my friend who gifted me this rifle, but if I can argue that historical fact if true it’s a win win. Can anyone confirm this?

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If confirmed, I think I will make my own brew. I have the Tung Oil, & mineral spirits, I’d just need a fresh can of spar varnish for a 1/3 mix. I’ve done this before for other furniture and gun stocks with great results. What do ya think?

NavyDoc76-80 said:

After reading Dave’s post, I am more inclined to use a varnished infused Tung Oil vs straight Tung oil to finish my bare stock. I read conflicting views on pure Tung Oil. Some say easy, drys quickly, leaves a hard finish. Others says it takes forever and is not weather proof. A quart of Walrus pure Tung Oil I have on hand, claims excellent for outside furniture. These are conflicting at best. Moving on, the elder gentleman who gifted me the rifle, got wind I was finishing (refinishing) the rifle and told my wife he better not see a sheen on it. Further, that only BLO should be used. I would prefer not. What did the old timers use? Anyone’s guess I assume. I’m sure animal fat wasn’t out of the question. But I digress. I looked at the Sutherland Welles site. The least glossy would be my pick. Dave showed Gloss and medium gloss. Anyone with pics showing low gloss?

Click to expand...

Tung Oil is water proof and doesn't darken with age. It is a good finish but drying time for full protection is around twenty to 30 days. or so depending on your climate. Tung Oil can be touched up if need be without any major concern nor work. I really like this factor! The only down side I have witnessed is it isn't very durable. I have use a lot of it and this is the only part I am not happy with. I see no problem using it on a rifle stock if one is careful in handling the rifle. If you are not accustom to using it I would suggest not using pure Tung Oil. Also multiple thin coats wiped off Is what I find does best for me.I have found if you flood it on your work it can become a long wait to dry even though you wipe it off.

Hi,
Under no circumstances use raw tung oil or raw linseed oil on any gun stock. If you want to use raw or pure tung oil, mix it with spar varnish or just as good, polyurethane varnish. However, POLYMERIZED tung oil works just as well and dries quickly and does not take months to dry. Notice the word POLYMERIZED. It means the oil was heat treated and mixed with solvents. IT IS NOT RAW TUNG OIL. If the container does not say POLYMERIZED somewhere it is not POLYMERIZED. Tru Oil, loved by so many is simply POLYMERIZED linseed oil mixed with solvents. That is why it dries so fast. Polymerized tung oil will dry fast and hard and offers a tough water resistant finish.

NavyDoc76-80 said:

After reading Dave’s post, I am more inclined to use a varnished infused Tung Oil vs straight Tung oil to finish my bare stock. I read conflicting views on pure Tung Oil. Some say easy, drys quickly, leaves a hard finish. Others says it takes forever and is not weather proof. A quart of Walrus pure Tung Oil I have on hand, claims excellent for outside furniture. These are conflicting at best. Moving on, the elder gentleman who gifted me the rifle, got wind I was finishing (refinishing) the rifle and told my wife he better not see a sheen on it. Further, that only BLO should be used. I would prefer not. What did the old timers use? Anyone’s guess I assume. I’m sure animal fat wasn’t out of the question. But I digress. I looked at the Sutherland Welles site. The least glossy would be my pick. Dave showed Gloss and medium gloss. Anyone with pics showing low gloss?

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Here is a gun with low gloss POLYMERIZED tung oil.



I showed no guns with high gloss finish. The others were medium gloss POLYMERIZED tung oil. You can have it both ways because if you add 25% turps or mineral spirits to medium sheen SW polymerized tung oil, you get low sheen SW polymerized tung oil. Yes, 18th century guns were usually finished with a linseed oil based varnish that mixed the oil with resins (copal) to dry it faster and give it a harder surface. They were not finished with raw linseed oil. No gunsmith could afford to use a finish that took months to dry or required weeks of hand rubbing. These were tradesmen needing to get paid and make a living not hobbyists.

dave

Tru-Oil and Minwax Tung Oil Finish are too shiny for a vintage-look gunstock if just left to dry and cure. Excess sheen is easily dealt with. Too little sheen is not. Therefore I'd rather use a polymerized oil finish because it's faster and its level of sheen can be moderated and the end result is the same.

wiscoaster said:

Tru-Oil and Minwax Tung Oil Finish are too shiny for a vintage-look gunstock if just left to dry and cure. Excess sheen is easily dealt with. Too little sheen is not. Therefore I'd rather use a polymerized oil finish because it's faster and its level of sheen can be moderated and the end result is the same.

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Hi Wiscoaster,
Tru-Oil is a polymerized oil (linseed) and polymerized tung oil can acquire a glossy hard brittle look if you build it up. It is all about application not the finish. Minwax "Tung Oil Finish" has no tung oil. It may have some derivatives made from tung oil but no oil. Neither does Formby's tung oil finish. They are both wiping varnishes meaning they are applied with rag or brush, let sit for a few minutes, and then all excess wiped off. They do not penetrate very deeply (really no finish does) but are still good finishes. I used Formby's on a couple of guns years ago and the results were fine. It was Kit Ravenshear's go to finish for everything.

dave