TC Renegade .54 Cal. Advice

New to black powder/muzzleloaders. I inherited a .54 cal renegade and have been trying to get it dialed in for an upcoming muzzleloader season. I am using .530 round balls, with lubed .015 patches, and have worked up to 80 grains of 3F Goex.

I got comfortable with shooting at 25, then got it completely zeroed at 50. Today I wanted to see how it did out to 100. I shot one at 50 that was right on the bullseye, and then adjusted the sight up a bit so my group is 1-2 inches above bullseye. I figured if it was a touch high at 50 that would be fine and would make for less compensating at 100.

As you can see in the photos, my group is very tight at 50 and I feel super confident. Out at 100 I was holding 4- 6 inches. high for my shots and I was on paper every shot, and fairly close to the bullseye often. But as you can see my groups are a little loose and all over the place.

I will say this is the first gun I have shot much with iron sights at all other than a bb gun as a kid, so that may be a factor, but I was wondering if there is any advice you folks might have that could help me tighten the group. Be it technique or equipment/load adjustments.

I experimented with 70 grains and 80 grains and found they were about the same. I then took a couple shots with 90 grains and It seemed like accuracy went down.

With 80 grains the patches are holding up great, but with 90 it destroyed them. I attached some photos there as well.

I finished off the session hitting a 6x6 steel target at about 105 yards three shots in a row. Which makes me feel like I could take a shot at 100 while out hunting, but I would like it to be tighter eventually.

Thats about all I can think of at the moment, any tips would be appreciated, and maybe I just need more practice with the iron sights. Either way I'm having a blast.

Wow, that’s a pretty big difference between your 50 & 100 yard target. After you adjusted your sight to shoot at 100 did you try any at 50 again? I’m not sure what the issue could be but am interested to see the replies with potential solutions.

CoHiCntry said:

Wow, that’s a pretty big difference between your 50 & 100 yard target. After you adjusted your site to shoot at 100 did you try any at 50 again? I’m not sure what the issue could be but am interested to see the replies with potential solutions.

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The 4 shot group at 50 is after I adjusted the sight to be a little higher than the first shot that was in the red. So no problems there. Don't think that would have had anything to do with the left-right accuracy at 100 either.

Yeah, I wouldn’t think so either. But if it were me I would have went back to 50 just for confirmation. Sounds like you made the change then shot at 50 then 100 so that isn’t applicable here. I wouldn’t be shooting at anything at 100 with a group like that. Good luck getting it figured out. Lots of guys on here with a bunch of experience.

I think a lot of your problem lies in your statement "I was holding 4 to 6 inches high at 100yds". That's a very imprecise method of sighting. Try putting a definite aiming point at your 100 yard target.

TechMoron said:

I think a lot of your problem lies in your statement "I was holding 4 to 6 inches high at 100yds". That's a very imprecise method of sighting. Try putting a definite aiming point at your 100 yard target.

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So you're suggesting zeroing dead on at 100 and holding low at anything closer? How would this affect the left and right discrepancy?

CoHiCntry said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t think so either. But if it were me I would have went back to 50 just for confirmation. Sounds like you made the change then shot at 50 then 100 so that isn’t applicable here. I wouldn’t be shooting at anything at 100 with a group like that. Good luck getting it figured out. Lots of guys on here with a bunch of experience.

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What size groups would you/ do you achieve with a round ball at 100 yards before hunting at that distance? I at least feel good knowing every shot would have been in the vital zone on most animals. Still hoping to get a shot closer than that but would like to have the option. Thanks

jahrig said:

So you're suggesting zeroing dead on at 100 and holding low at anything closer? How would this affect the left and right discrepancy?

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After thinking about it again I'm guessing you are suggesting putting a specific point on the target to aim at above the bullseye. I would say after a little bit of trial and error I found that if I held directly on the second red line above the bullseye it was the proper elevation. But maybe a bigger point on there would be helpful for sure.

jahrig said:

What size groups would you/ do you achieve with a round ball at 100 yards before hunting at that distance? I at least feel good knowing every shot would have been in the vital zone on most animals. Still hoping to get a shot closer than that but would like to have the option. Thanks

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I would want them all in the 10 ring for sure. That’s what I strive for knowing that’s my max distance. I personally won’t shoot at anything further than 100 yards with PRB.

jahrig said:

Thats about all I can think of at the moment, any tips would be appreciated, and maybe I just need more practice with the iron sights. Either way I'm having a blast.

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I had a rifle that shot just like that...



Notice how wide all of a sudden your group becomes going out to 50 yards, and while you have five hits in the ten ring, you have four outside of it AND none in the bull. Now I can't fully diagnose your rifle without seeing in first hand, BUT I think you have a burr or two in your barrel. Your 80 grain patch shows a couple points of over-wear on the cloth patch and your 90 grain patch is blown. So what I think is happening is that half the time that burr in your rifling is damaging the patch enough that the ball is unstable, and sometimes it's not enough and the ball flies stable. IF all of your shots at 100 yards used 90 grains..., then yes your patching is getting damaged, and the 90 grain charge was enough to burn completely through.

It's an easy fix. Get a piece of "green scrubbie" from the grocery store. The abrasive pad used for hand-washing dishes. Cut a small piece off and run that back and fourth about ten times the entire length of the barrel interior. Repeat this about four times. You're polishing and de-burring the barrel. Then rinse and dry the barrel. After that try an 80 grain load for both distances and see what you get for groups. (80 grains and a .530 round ball is fine for most large game in North America).

Set your sight to shoot about 2" high at fifty yards, and that will mean that out at 100 yards the ball will hit about 2" low, with that 80 grain load. You won't need to guess at "hold over". Just line up the sights and let her fly.



LD

Loyalist Dave said:

I had a rifle that shot just like that...

View attachment 368339

Notice how wide all of a sudden your group becomes going out to 50 yards, and while you have five hits in the ten ring, you have four outside of it AND none in the bull. Now I can't fully diagnose your rifle without seeing in first hand, BUT I think you have a burr or two in your barrel. Your 80 grain patch shows a couple points of over-wear on the cloth patch and your 90 grain patch is blown. So what I think is happening is that half the time that burr in your rifling is damaging the patch enough that the ball is unstable, and sometimes it's not enough and the ball flies stable. IF all of your shots at 100 yards used 90 grains..., then yes your patching is getting damaged, and the 90 grain charge was enough to burn completely through.

It's an easy fix. Get a piece of "green scrubbie" from the grocery store. The abrasive pad used for hand-washing dishes. Cut a small piece off and run that back and fourth about ten times the entire length of the barrel interior. Repeat this about four times. You're polishing and de-burring the barrel. Then rinse and dry the barrel. After that try an 80 grain load for both distances and see what you get for groups. (80 grains and a .530 round ball is fine for most large game in North America).

Set your sight to shoot about 2" high at fifty yards, and that will mean that out at 100 yards the ball will hit about 2" low, with that 80 grain load. You won't need to guess at "hold over". Just line up the sights and let her fly.



LD

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Thanks thats really interesting! I'll give it a try. Would a bronze brush not be enough to eliminate a burr? Just asking because I have one on hand.

jahrig said:

So you're suggesting zeroing dead on at 100 and holding low at anything closer? How would this affect the left and right discrepancy?

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I'm saying that at whatever yardage you're shooting while figuring out you rifle, you need a definite aiming point. After you get your load development done, then you can figure out the overs & unders at various ranges.

jahrig said:

Thanks thats really interesting! I'll give it a try. Would a bronze brush not be enough to eliminate a burr? Just asking because I have one on hand.

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Nope. It's a bit tedious but works. Some guys will use a jag and a rag with valve lapping compound, but I'd only do that if I was working on a target barrel

LD

aaahhhhhh keep the brush out of there .... im out of popcorn. also you need a smaller jag with the scotch brite pad.

You have received a lot of good information. Here are a few other things that I do.

I generally shoot much better groups with cast balls then factory swage balls. The factory balls seem to have a larger variety of weights.

If your patches are being damaged try an over powder wad to protect the patch. Or just put another patch on top of the powder to protect your patch and ball, also you can use a bit of cornmeal over the powder.

I suspect your restriction is the sight picture. I prefer to file the ball off the front sight to have a finer image to sight with. Or replace the sight altogether. Peep sights can also be helpful. If you have a finer sight picture and a good stable rest you can actually see what your gun is capable of. I’d not be concerned where the group is on the target at first, just be concerned with its size.

I took a combination of all your advice (scrubbed barrel, focused on a more definite aiming point, made sure I was sighted 2 inches high at 50) and also really focused on a smooth trigger pull and anchoring on the rest and had what feels like considerably better results. I’ll keep working on it but I’m feeling better about it already. Thanks everyone!

Don’t bother with comparing groups or even shooting any more until you fix the bore roughness problem. @Loyalist Dave gave you the right direction to go in. You might also try a bit thicker patch. It's not typical for tc barrels to be rough. They are button rifled which produces a smoother finish than a lot of cut rifled barrels. When your bore is cleaned up and the patch matched to the ball size. You should be able to shoot max loads and have every fired patch consistently undamaged.

Here's how you want your patches to look.

longcruise said:

Don’t bother with comparing groups or even shooting any more until you fix the bore roughness problem. @Loyalist Dave gave you the right direction to go in. You might also try a bit thicker patch. It's not typical for tc barrels to be rough. They are button rifled which produces a smoother finish than a lot of cut rifled barrels. When your bore is cleaned up and the patch matched to the ball size. You should be able to shoot max loads and have every fired patch consistently undamaged.

Here's how you want your patches to look.

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Didn't get a picture but patches held up well today.

I zero my guns at 50yds for hunting, and leave the sights alone. Not much point of impact changes at 25 yds, maybe a little low at 75 yds, which is about as far as I'm comfortable taking ethical kill shots with a patched round ball. If I was to shoot at 100yds or more, I'd spend enough range time to know the holdovers. I'm sure there are folks here that shoot tight groups at 100yds using the holdover method, I'm just not one of them. Minute of deer? Sure, but not tight groups.

Fastleo said:

Or just put another patch on top of the powder to protect your patch and ball, also you can use a bit of cornmeal over the powder.

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An extra patch (dry) is what I do, and saw a noticeable improvement. I also limit my shots to 80 yards (my maximum comfort range for iron sights). Looks like your on the right path with your 100 yard group.