New Woodsrunner getting it dialed in 3f goex vs swiss

rbeave · Sunday at 6:51 PM

Anyone else shoot goex or swiss 3f out of they're 50 cal woodsrunner that would have an idea on velocitys/powder charges? I don't have a chronograph and I'm curious. I'm working on a general purpose load for target and small/midsized game( a year round load outside of deer season)
What I've worked out so far is .018 pillow ticking patch with tow mink oil rubbed in the smooth side of patch. .490 hornady ball.
50 gr of 3f goex will stack shots at 25 yards benched. 45 gr of 3f swiss will shoot a 2" group at 50 yards leaning against a tree. Same poi for both loads good crack out of both also.

Looking to hear from other woodsrunner owners and what's working for them

justinoldguy · Sunday at 10:39 PM

I do not own a Woodsrunner, but I have several rifles in .50 caliber. I shoot a lot over chronographs, literally many thousands of rounds in a wide variety of calibers, in both handguns and rifles. I could quote you actual chronograph data, but in a .50 cal, 60 grains of 3f is plenty for deer, and is usually quite accurate. In fact, I use 60 grains of 3F in every rifle I own with two exceptions (.40 cal flinter, and my Pedersoli .54 RMH), regardless of caliber. I don't know your barrel length, but generally 60 grains of Goex 3f and a .490 PRB will produce 1450 fps, while Swiss 3f is decidedly more energetic, and will give over 1700 fps with the same projectile. Either will do what you are seeking to accomplish. My numbers are based on actual chronograph data, not speculation. I use Swiss 3f exclusively in my rifles, as it is vastly superior to Goex, and for me worth the extra $12-$15 per lb. You can safely achieve over 2000 fps in a .50 cal using Swiss, but you asked specifically about a general purpose load. Rest assured that a .490 ball driven at 1400-1500 fps will quickly down the biggest buck that ever lived.

rbeave · Monday at 7:31 AM

I did not realize swiss is that much more potent than goex.. nearly 15%.. the woodsrunner has a 40" barrel

justinoldguy · Monday at 9:11 AM

rbeave said:
I did not realize swiss is that much more potent than goex.. nearly 15%.. the woodsrunner has a 40" barrel

Goex is a very weak powder compared to everything else, except maybe the old Elephant Powder. I used Goex for years, as it was readily available, and considered the "standard". Here are real chrono results, in as close a comparison as I can do to your Woodsrunner.

.50 pedersoli Blue Ridge. 39" barrel, .015 patch, .490 rb

75 grain Swiss

1754
1696.
1722.
1769.
1768

90 grain Swiss 3f

1974
1999
1992

60 gr. Swiss 3f prb

1700
1678
1696

Goex 3f 90 gr. prb

1629
1687
1691

Goex 75 prb

1587
1554
1572

Goex 60 prb

1496
1512
1476

rbeave · Monday at 9:34 AM

Thankyou very much

bldtrailer · Monday at 5:30 PM

green mtn barrel 70 grn 3f swiss

10 oz denim mutton tallow lube (your kibler was green mtn barrel)

TerryK · Monday at 6:02 PM

I just ran low on Goex 4F, so I bought some Swiss 4F. Naturally it is for the flash pan, but I swear it is a tad faster and a tad cleaner. I used two different primer dispensers, so it was easy to compare. The Swiss is finer, and the grains are consistent.
When I picked up the Swiss 4F, I bought 3F too, but only used it on 1 session. With 50G in a 45 I think it had more omph. I also was imagining that is cleaned a little easier, but realistically I wanted it to be that way. But next time I get powder I'm guess it will be Swiss.
So thanks for the discussion.

olskool · Monday at 6:18 PM

I have been a handloader since 1967 when I was a kid. I used to want the hottest and most speed out of everything I shot. then when I started to get some sense, that usually happens around 40-45 years old, I stopped worrying so much about speed and concentrating on accuracy. to me that is way more important! I like goex, it is cheaper than Swiss, every bit as accurate, made in the USA and dose not leave a hard powder ring 2in from the breach like Swiss, and 60gr. will kill most things that need killen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

rbeave · Monday at 6:31 PM

olskool said:
I have been a handloader since 1967 when I was a kid. I used to want the hottest and most speed out of everything I shot. then when I started to get some sense, that usually happens around 40-45 years old, I stopped worrying so much about speed and concentrating on accuracy. to me that is way more important! I like goex, it is cheaper than Swiss, every bit as accurate, made in the USA and dose not leave a hard powder ring 2in from the breach like Swiss, and 60gr. will kill most things that need killen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I've still got some years before my 40s but I started reloading unmentionables when I was 17 and somehow just this year stumbled into traditional rifles and falling down the rabbit hole. Ive been priming with what's in the bore and have noticed Swiss has substantially less fowling than goex. On the pan after 2 shots goex leaves more fowling than 10 shots with swiss.. but the Swiss fowling is in a way harder than goex fowling. Both seem to take the same time to clean up with cold water..but swiss fowling just hangs on a little more. I can seem to load as much as I want with Swiss but 5 shots and I need to swab with goex before prb gets real hard to load. Could be the weather where it was 35 degree rain then snow and below 20 the last few days

olskool · Tuesday at 7:26 AM

rbeave said:
I've still got some years before my 40s but I started reloading unmentionables when I was 17 and somehow just this year stumbled into traditional rifles and falling down the rabbit hole. Ive been priming with what's in the bore and have noticed Swiss has substantially less fowling than goex. On the pan after 2 shots goex leaves more fowling than 10 shots with swiss.. but the Swiss fowling is in a way harder than goex fowling. Both seem to take the same time to clean up with cold water..but swiss fowling just hangs on a little more. I can seem to load as much as I want with Swiss but 5 shots and I need to swab with goex before prb gets real hard to load. Could be the weather where it was 35 degree rain then snow and below 20 the last few days

if you use 60% water and 40% dawn dish soap for patch lube you will never "swab" ever again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

RocketMan58 · Tuesday at 9:17 AM

justinoldguy said:
Goex is a very weak powder compared to everything else, except maybe the old Elephant Powder. I used Goex for years, as it was readily available, and considered the "standard". Here are real chrono results, in as close a comparison as I can do to your Woodsrunner.

.50 pedersoli Blue Ridge. 39" barrel, .015 patch, .490 rb

75 grain Swiss

1754
1696.
1722.
1769.
1768

90 grain Swiss 3f

1974
1999
1992

60 gr. Swiss 3f prb

1700
1678
1696

Goex 3f 90 gr. prb

1629
1687
1691

Goex 75 prb

1587
1554
1572

Goex 60 prb

1496
1512
1476

Not to divert this thread but can a newbie ask if Elephant brand powder something to be avoided? BP is very rare in my area ( due to state regulations) but I was finally able to find a shop that had FFF Elephant brand in stock. I grabbed 3 lbs. Did I waste my money?

Rebel bull · Tuesday at 9:44 AM

olskool said:
I have been a handloader since 1967 when I was a kid. I used to want the hottest and most speed out of everything I shot. then when I started to get some sense, that usually happens around 40-45 years old, I stopped worrying so much about speed and concentrating on accuracy. to me that is way more important! I like goex, it is cheaper than Swiss, every bit as accurate, made in the USA and dose not leave a hard powder ring 2in from the breach like Swiss, and 60gr. will kill most things that need killen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I agree with every thing you said but the part about getting sense at about 40-45 years of age my boys are far beyound that and still chasing bigger is better LOL

Mike in FL · Tuesday at 10:12 AM

rbeave said:
Anyone else shoot goex or swiss 3f out of they're 50 cal woodsrunner that would have an idea on velocitys/powder charges? I don't have a chronograph and I'm curious. I'm working on a general purpose load for target and small/midsized game( a year round load outside of deer season)
What I've worked out so far is .018 pillow ticking patch with tow mink oil rubbed in the smooth side of patch. .490 hornady ball.
50 gr of 3f goex will stack shots at 25 yards benched. 45 gr of 3f swiss will shoot a 2" group at 50 yards leaning against a tree. Same poi for both loads good crack out of both also. View attachment 370475 Looking to hear from other woodsrunner owners and what's working for them

I must have a WR. I must!

olskool · Tuesday at 10:18 AM

Rebel bull said:
I agree with every thing you said but the part about getting sense at about 40-45 years of age my boys are far beyound that and still chasing bigger is better LOL

i was being kind, i didn't want to offend younger men. the older i get the smarter my daddy was, really it is about the age of 50 before you start to get a grip on reality,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

rbeave · Tuesday at 10:24 AM

olskool said:
i was being kind, i didn't want to offend younger men. the older i get the smarter my daddy was, really it is about the age of 50 before you get a grip on reality,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I must be old for my age then, Just sold our second property living offgrid in a cabin with my pregnant wife 3 year old boy now. Life's the best it's ever been! Settled in at 35. I did lose both of my folks to cancer in the last 5 years. Made me realize some things very quickly

rbeave · Tuesday at 10:30 AM

Mike in FL said:
I must have a WR. I must!

I think I'll post a thread with a few pictures of mine. I'm in no way great at finishing out these rifles but do what I can. I did royally screw up my first attempt on my mountain rifle rushing it this spring when I was too busy

SDSmlf · Tuesday at 10:42 AM

RocketMan58 said:
Not to divert this thread but can a newbie ask if Elephant brand powder something to be avoided? BP is very rare in my area ( due to state regulations) but I was finally able to find a shop that had FFF Elephant brand in stock. I grabbed 3 lbs. Did I waste my money?

I believe Elephant black powder was a South American black powder that probably hasn’t been manufactured in over 20 years. Remember it as very dirty and anemic. If it’s all you can find, it does work.

Surprised black powder is difficult to find in Nebraska. Time to order online.

RocketMan58 · Tuesday at 10:54 AM

SDSmlf said:
I believe Elephant black powder was a South American black powder that probably hasn’t been manufactured in over 20 years. Remember it as very dirty and anemic. If it’s all you can find, it does work.

Surprised black powder is difficult to find in Nebraska. Time to order online.

Thank you for that info. That might explain why the guy still had it

Oh well, I'll keep my eyes out for some Goex next time I'm out of state.

Sagebrush · Tuesday at 11:11 AM

olskool said:
if you use 60% water and 40% dawn dish soap for patch lube you will never "swab" ever again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

But I assume you wouldn't use that for hunting?

rbeave · Tuesday at 11:33 AM

Sagebrush said:
But I assume you wouldn't use that for hunting?

That's my assumption, why im using mink oil

New Woodsrunner getting it dialed in 3f goex vs swiss

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