What kind of accuracy should i expect?

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TTT

TTT

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I currently own and shoot 2 smoothbores, a .62 32" barrel, and a .66 jugchoked 36" barrel. I have not shot the .66 with roundball yet but have a load for my .62 with a patched roundball. I know once the ball gets under a certain velocity it will begin to float like a knuckle ball. #1 what is that volocity? #2 what kind of groups should I expect from a hunting smoothbore with patch and roundball ? And #3 what kind of range should I expect to keep say a 4" group out to?
 

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The velocity you speak of is the speed of sound in the locale that you are shooting in. As the ball loses speed and descends below the speed of sound (approximately 1080 fps @standard temperature and pressure) random air currents flowing over the ball raise cain with the trajectory (the "knuckle ball" effect). If you can hold 4" groups @ 50 yards you're doing good. Look up Bernoulli effect.
 
Black Powder guns spend so little time Supersonic that it doesn't really apply for most of our shooting.
The shock wave going from supersonic to subsonic will affect a conical and cause it to tumble.But with the ball it doesn't really happen. Plus it's pretty hard to identify a keyhole ball in a target LO.L

I'm not a baseball player, but I'm pretty positive that the knuckleball's erratic flight is caused from the uneven surface due to the stitching....not velocity.
 
Last edited:
TTT said:
I know once the ball gets under a certain velocity it will begin to float like a knuckle ball.
Click to expand...
You know it?
Or do you surmise it?
Or have you just heard it? (Lots of things get said here as statement of fact, in a manner to suggest the writer is infallible)

Out of either of my smoothbore guns I reject any load that won't shoot sub-four inch groups at 50 yards off the bench. I have known others to maintain 4 inch or less groups out to 75 yards, and I've seen one or two guys hit some pretty small targets at 100 yards but they weren't shooting for group.
I don't have a place to shoot off a bench at 75 yards and 100 yards is too far for me personally. My vision just isn't going to allow it. Besides, I have few opportunities to use a roundball from a smoothbore past 50 to 75 yards, with most deer being shot around here at less than 30 yards.

Remember to throw rifle "rules" out the window.

You may not need the patch, and tighter isnt always better.

Only change one thing at a time.

If a load doesn't perform at 25 yards, it certainly won't get better at 50 or 75.
 
Last edited:
Brokennock said:
You know it?
Or do you surmise it?
Or have you just heard it? (Lots of things get said here as statement of fact, in a manner to suggest the writer is infallible)

Out of either of my smoothbore guns I reject any load that won't shoot sub-four inch groups at 50 yards off the bench. I have known others to maintain 4 inch or less groups out to 75 yards, and I've seen one or two guys hit some pretty small targets at 100 yards but they weren't shooting for group.
I don't have a place to shoot off a bench at 75 yards and 100 yards is too far for me personally. My vision just isn't going to allow it. Besides, I have few opportunities to use a roundball from a smoothbore past 50 to 75 yards, with most deer being shot around here at less than 30 yards.

Remember to throw rifle "rules" out the window.

You may not need the patch, and tighter isnt always better.

Only change one thing at a time.

If a load doesn't perform at 25 yards, it certainly won't get better at 50 or 75.
Click to expand...
Fair enough .. I have read that effect could happen. I'm all for playing and spending my time shooting! Just trying to find an idea of what I could work for.
The load is have for my .62 currently is 3"ish group at 50 yards and am going to play further to see. IVE KILLED deer and hogs with it out to 40ish yards so far.

Thanks for your input!
 
I’ve never benched any of my smooth bores but can get 8” groups off hand at 50 yards generally. I wonder if larger balls fly more true than smaller round balls, any ideas?
 
TTT said:
Fair enough .. I have read that effect could happen. I'm all for playing and spending my time shooting! Just trying to find an idea of what I could work for.
The load is have for my .62 currently is 3"ish group at 50 yards and am going to play further to see. IVE KILLED deer and hogs with it out to 40ish yards so far.

Thanks for your input!
Click to expand...
Please join our monthly forum competition.
There are several categories to participate in,...including smoothbore.
Gary does a super job of picking interesting targets every month.
This month's target is a real fun one.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/february-6-is-national-lame-duck-day.190856/
 
Freedom said:
Please join our monthly forum competition.
There are several categories to participate in,...including smoothbore.
Gary does a super job of picking interesting targets every month.
This month's target is a real fun one.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/february-6-is-national-lame-duck-day.190856/
Click to expand...
I’ll try a lame duck with my smoothie tomorrow. I’m meeting a friend at the range tomorrow that has a ton of experience shooting them. I’m hoping he can beat some smooth bore sense into my thick skull. Had to have my woman show me how to print the targets off.
 
average shooter can do 60 yards if they do their part
a top notch shooter can go out to 80-100 yards with a well tuned load, but we are talking marksmen who have been working at that smoothbore load for a long time

regarless, consistancy is the key once you find your ideal load, keep all the variables constant

Myself I won't go beyond 50 with a smooth bore. I feel much more confident at 40. Old eyes and reflexes. :)
 
TTT said:
TTT said:
I currently own and shoot 2 smoothbores, a .62 32" barrel, and a .66 jugchoked 36" barrel. I have not shot the .66 with roundball yet but have a load for my .62 with a patched roundball. I know once the ball gets under a certain velocity it will begin to float like a knuckle ball. #1 what is that volocity? #2 what kind of groups should I expect from a hunting smoothbore with patch and roundball ? And #3 what kind of range should I expect to keep say a 4" group out to?
Click to expand...

Fair enough .. I have read that effect could happen. I'm all for playing and spending my time shooting! Just trying to find an idea of what I could work for.
The load is have for my .62 currently is 3"ish group at 50 yards and am going to play further to see. IVE KILLED deer and hogs with it out to 40ish yards so far.

Thanks for your input!
Click to expand...
I have a smooth rifle in .54 and a .62 CenterMark French fusil.
Have fired the .54 around 2,000 times (90 % of them ball loads ). The .62 approximately 350 ball loads.
The .54 sometimes does 5” groups at 50 yards from a rest, sometimes larger.
The .62 averages 8” at 50. Both guns shot from a rest.
If I was getting pretty consistent 4” groups at 50 yards with either of my guns I would praise God and consider myself extremely lucky!
 
smoothshooter said:
I have a smooth rifle in .54 and a .62 CenterMark French fusil.
Have fired the .54 around 2,000 times (90 % of them ball loads ). The .62 approximately 350 ball loads.
The .54 sometimes does 5” groups at 50 yards from a rest, sometimes larger.
The .62 averages 8” at 50. Both guns shot from a rest.
If I was getting pretty consistent 4” groups at 50 yards with either of my guns I would praise God and consider myself extremely lucky!
Click to expand...
One of my two is a 20 gauge Centermark Fusil des Chase.. it took a little more load development work to get sub 4" groups at 50 yards than my smoothrifle did,,,, but sub 4" is achievable.
 
Brokennock said:
You know it?
Or do you surmise it?
Or have you just heard it? (Lots of things get said here as statement of fact, in a manner to suggest the writer is infallible)

Out of either of my smoothbore guns I reject any load that won't shoot sub-four inch groups at 50 yards off the bench. I have known others to maintain 4 inch or less groups out to 75 yards, and I've seen one or two guys hit some pretty small targets at 100 yards but they weren't shooting for group.
I don't have a place to shoot off a bench at 75 yards and 100 yards is too far for me personally. My vision just isn't going to allow it. Besides, I have few opportunities to use a roundball from a smoothbore past 50 to 75 yards, with most deer being shot around here at less than 30 yards.

Remember to throw rifle "rules" out the window.

You may not need the patch, and tighter isnt always better.

Only change one thing at a time.

If a load doesn't perform at 25 yards, it certainly won't get better at 50 or 75.
Click to expand...
In the interest of “science “, I occasionally toy with the idea of sending one of my smoothbores to Bobby Hoyt while he is still around and have him cut some straight rifling in the barrel to see how it works.
This has been a topic of discussion around here many times, but almost no one has ever actually had the nerve to try it out for themselves. I don’t see how it could cause any harm anyway.
 
I have known of some smooth bore shooters who have straight rifling. They talked about the advantage of not spinning the shot charge that opens up patterns and having a gripping factor on a patched ball. That was some time ago. Not many talking about it now. It didn't really improve accuracy either in pattern performance with shot or patched round ball on target. An interesting theory @smoothshooter, but not much benefit in practice.

With reasonable practice, the 4" group at 50 yards is possible @TTT. A more reasonable expectation is the 6" group.

I have noted that there are not many 50 XXXX groups being shown since Tip Curtis shot that group many years ago. I know that I can't show such a group even from a bench. I have to really work to get a 4" group at 25 yards from the bench at times.
 
Grenadier1758 said:
I have known of some smooth bore shooters who have straight rifling. They talked about the advantage of not spinning the shot charge that opens up patterns and having a gripping factor on a patched ball. That was some time ago. Not many talking about it now. It didn't really improve accuracy either in pattern performance with shot or patched round ball on target. An interesting theory @smoothshooter, but not much benefit in practice.

With reasonable practice, the 4" group at 50 yards is possible @TTT. A more reasonable expectation is the 6" group.

I have noted that there are not many 50 XXXX groups being shown since Tip Curtis shot that group many years ago. I know that I can't show such a group even from a bench. I have to really work to get a 4" group at 25 yards from the bench at times.
Click to expand...
My thoughts on the straight rifling was not to make small groups smaller, but to see if it would cut down on the occasional uncalled flyer that ruins an otherwise nice, well-rounded group
 
olskool said:
I have that target on a photo also, I would like to see all the other targets before that one and after, i bet they aint close,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Click to expand...

I never saw the man fire the first shot, but I’ve never seen such a display of Muzzleloading awards, trophies won at various rendezvous & shoots across the Country..

FEB81722-9FF2-4394-9107-D9CEE50C6B4E.jpeg


367ABC45-D95A-4526-A6BA-1A140C6EF2FE.jpeg

I wish I had of taken more time too photograph his accomplishments and videotaped some of our conversations along the way..
 
Tip's target is marked "musket". Could it have been rifled? Not trying to take anything away from him but just wonder about it. That's a fantastic target shot with rifle or smoothbore.

I had opportunities to observe the behavior of balls in flight while scoring 200 yard rams in ml silhouette matches. All the ram shots were spotted with spotting scopes for hits since many participants shot calibers that weren't capable of knocking the rams over. It's amazing how you can watch the ball in flight when you are sitting near the shooter. Try it sometime. It's kinda eery the way it seems to be in slow motion.

Watching balls from rifles and smoothbores i never observed any perturbation as they flew downrange that would suggest they were upset upon dropping subsonic. The smoothbores were clearly changing direction between 50 and 100 yards. But it was a smooth ever increasing arc both vertically and horizontally and not consistently from shot to shot.
 


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