Fusil de Chasse, at last!!!

Flint62Smoothie said:

@pipascus - Problem is ... NO ONE really makes an excellent one!

-The stock should be walnut, or fruit wood (in some cases) but definitely not maple (unless going for a re-stocked here arm)
-The barrel should be no less than 44.3" long (actual barrel measured in pieds and pouces)
-The breech sction of the barrel, where octagonal, should be tapered (most are not)
-Only 1 wedding band on the barrel, round section continually tapering (again, most don't)
-There should be facets from the oct section on the barrel to the wedding band transition, about 2-1/4" long
-Typical all iron hardware for a trade FdC
-Lock with faceted pan, of slight banana shape and flat lockplate of a certain length I forget off the top of my head. IIRC the Davis lock is often touted as being the closest, but making mine to be LH'd, I started out with a LH Trade Lock by Danny Caywood and filed the lockplate flat.
-Lock surround rear finnial shold be more of an elongated tear drop than pure heart shape, as someone above mentioned, as in the dozen+ arms depicted in Bouchar'd book, all are the teardrop style
-Side plate of a long, flat 'S' shape with circular fieze in the center (which early 1700s Tulle FdC's did not have)
-Stock shape wth quite a bit of drop to full and severe curve "I will SMACK you in the nose but good" in the pied de vache (Cow's foot) style
-Only 1 pin per ramrod pipe, whereas Track of the Wolf sold their alleged FdC plans for years showing 2 pins per pipe, sacre bleu! It has since been corrected (Hey, may be my letter to them actually did some good?)

I'm probably missing something, but you get the picture. And then again, it depends heaviliy on which specific year Contract arm are you making? If indeed to be a FdC from the Tulle armory, and not just 'any' trade gun of the hunt from the lesser - yes, lesser quality - armories.

Advise you go on Facebook and look up Alex Efremenko, plus any posts he has also put here, as he is argueably THE BEST living maker of French arms. He is very open and I had consulted within many times in my build. When it came removing wood, he said something like:

"Remove wood to make it be trim and look svelte. Do it again - all over, everywhere, as there should be no more wood than absolutely necessary to hold it all together. Be careful, that upper forend will be FRAGILE when out of the stock. Do it again, all over. And ... once you reached the point to where you firmly believed you have RUINED it ... you're done!"

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Loyalist Dave said:

Well the wood tends to be pretty hard. I'd just use it and have a good time

LD

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tenngun said:

Well I’ve only done one Indian, so bow to your better experience

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Loyalist Dave said:

Funny I have a "trade gun" from probably a similar origin, and folks tried to tell me the same thing... OH and the ONLY thing that I needed to do in my opinion was to paint the stock. Never had a sparking issue or any other "failures". Actually NONE of my India Origin smooth bores have had problems.

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LD

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tenngun said:

Who is going to laugh at it?
No one at least to the owners face
And a man who laughs behind your back isn’t worth considering.
And you do with the best parts you still end up with a repo, that’s all most of us have.
None one of us is 100%. We can’t be. Your TFC isn’t
Your camp isnt
Your clothing isn’t.
We can’t get there
We are all on a trail to do our best.
Everyone reaches a point where we say that good enough
Some are closer than others but none have got there.
Get an old recipe for apple pie, cook it in your authentic looking reflector oven. Have you tasted the past? No
We can’t get those apples any more
Salt pork? I can make it, but you can’t get eighteenth century pork, they’re extinct
Hand sew your wool and linen? That’s great, but eighteenth century century sheep are all dead.
Your tent hand seen linen canvas? Mine ain’t, and it’s a good chance you won’t be allowed in a camp with out a fireproofed tent
Your candles all beef tallow? Bees wax was pretty expensive and only the rich used them
Glassed? They had them, but few had them
You’re proud of your TFC? Does it got a hand forged iron barrel, straightness checked by a candle? On first growth walnut? No? American walnut? Awfully farby there
Well you’re just pissing in the wind.
When one gets all high and mighty and reach your point of authentic your going to have a real small camp

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FlinterNick said:

Well Dave, you’re an expert here who can work on his own guns, so I’m sure it’s not a problem for you at all.

For the fellas who cant’ turn a screw driver in the right direction, or for the inquisitive beginner …. Not so sure there will be No issues for them.

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pipascus said:

I'm thinking of removing my front sight, as it is more of a lug than a sight, as Clark accurately pointed out.

I really like the turtle sights, but can't find one I like. I may just make my own.
Am I correct that these are attached using silver solder?

I would also guess that removing the current sight would require heating it up.
Does this affect the barrel in any way?

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Maximillian said:

Seven Years War, 1756-1763 (also called The First World War by Winston Churchill)

A small portion of the constant conflict between Britain and France encompassing hundreds of years. (see also The Hundred Years’ war and the Second Hundred Years’ War). Crips vs. Bloods y’all.

Can of worms opened, Prussia and Austria are switching allegiances with either Britain or France depending on where you are in the timeline. The division of territory in the new world is only part of the picture, war in Europe is rife. In 1762 Britain declares war on Spain, go figure.

Spain then unsuccessfully attempts to invade Britain’s ally Portugal in the Fantastic War. Spain also looses Havana in Cuba and Manila in the Philippines to Britain, but they were returned in the 1763 Treaty of Paris - wikipedia

Prussia is on its way to becoming the dominant power in Europe. France is going to lose it’s empire and is heading toward the French Revolution. But before all that is allied with the revolutionaries against the British in the Colonies of North America and wins for us, you and me, the liberties we enjoy today. There would be no USA without France siding with the colonial revolutionary forces and ultimately blockading Cornwall in at the Siege of Yorktown. (Thank you Benjamin Franklin for the service of your new nation while Ambassador in France. Merci and Viva la General Lafayette.)

But I’ve skipped ahead in the story. The F&I portion of the war ends in 1763 with the Treaty of Paris, in which France cedes rights to lands east of the Mississippi River to Britain, thus the British Colonies. Spain gives up Florida to Britain and in “compensation” receives “French Lands” in Louisiana. Can you say New Orleans? I knew you could.

I might add, the Spanish population in Florida was…minute. Like, not many colonizers on hand for the most part throughout all of this.

So… “what if…”

Sure, I guess. History is stranger than anything Hollywood could possibly come up with. Speaking of Hollywood that French Missionary in Black Robe was about 100 years before the French and Indian War and look at how that movie ended. Is “sure I guess” or “what if” good enough when there is history like this?

The suggestion is to choose your battles wisely. Do the bit of homework you need to make your representations plausible. If it feels like you’re grasping at straws, and I’m not suggesting you are, plausibility isn’t gunna fly very far.

I, like you, have the very same question. Where does one start?

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Loyalist Dave said:

No I fully understand your point, but I find too many folks paint such guns with the proverbial "broad brush".

"All of the locks need work" is something that I've heard a lot, and I'd think that if that were the case then of the four that I own, one at least would've been a problem. I've had to work on frizzens in both Pedersoli and Japanese Bess, but not the India ones that I own. Granted, it's a small sample, from only one vendor, yet it was also stretched out over many years.

Prior to that folks would claim "they're all pipe bombs". Another one was "they're not meant to be fired", and a third was "they all come from the same place and the barrels are not marked by the maker". Well all of mine came in ready to fire condition, touch hole drilled, blast protector for reenactors installed, none have exploded from live firing, and the barrels were all marked and dated.

While yes, perhaps I could work on them if a problem arises, but the problems haven't surfaced, yet.

LD

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tenngun said:

Just an aside. In 1821 the Santa Fe trail was opened. American goods left Missouri and traced to Mexico, that paid in good silver.
The trail and the trade is an overlooked piece of of history as Texas , Arkansas bushwhakers and mountain men were more exciting then mule skinners
I toss this in because of Spanish Louisiana. A Santa Fe-st Louis trail existed and was used off and on from 1763 till 1801when the French got Louisiana back, only to sell it two years later.
The trail was more for messages then trade, but in 1821the path to Santa Fe was known, though it was twenty yeas since anyone was known to travel it

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tenngun said:

Track smoothie sights
Including the turtle
That’s not HC but I like the turtle

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FlinterNick said:

For someone who calls out to the moderators you sure do enjoy the melodramatics.

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Grenadier1758 said:

Heating the barrel to remove the lug if quickly concentrated on the lug to knock it off shouldn't harm the barrel.

Soft solder will hold the new sight in place. Silver solder won't be harmful, just not necessary.

I prefer the simple blade sight curved for the barrel to the turtle. It's also a better starting point for filing some of the blade off if the point of impact is low with the most comfortable cheek position.

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FlinterNick said:

This is very good information.

And flintsmoothie is correct, there are very few out there that are accurate representations.

However, I would avoid removing wood from the teak stock, i would not modify it, teak stocks do not handle stress well at all.

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pipascus said:

I was told the stock on my gun is Rosewood. I guess that's a hardwood also.
That being said, I will still thin it down. It's just too "fat" right now.
I've seen examples of others having done it, and they look good.

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pipascus said:

HOLD ON!!!
Did you mean that the WAY you reply to people who insult you or your possessions is by saying "You have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a s#!t about what you have to say or think! Good Bye!"
???
Maybe there's been a bit of miscommunication here.

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pipascus said:

Good to know.
My only issue now is discovering it can drop the hammer in half cock if the trigger is pulled. Need to sort that out.

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pipascus said:

That's the thing: I would gladly listen to Clark.
He said it is not and will never be a TFDC.
Several times.
Got it.
When I can, I would very much like to get a TFDC that is accurate.
Now that he gave his obviously well educated input, it should be enough to say "Moving on, if you want that gun to look presentable as some kind of fowler, here's what you can do..."

I asked him several times to please contribute regarding how to make the gun look better-not making it a TFDC, but to at least make it look better. He could also contribute knowledge on what kit or manufacturer is better, what to look for, what to avoid.

But Clark seems obsessed with repeating "It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse..."
Regardless of how many times he is acknowledged.

Clark could make a modicum of effort in at least acknowledging people wanting to shoot and improving their guns. If these were people doing a documentary and claiming historical accuracy, or presenting themselves at events as historical representatives of the time... then yes, by all means, correct all the way.
But for goodness sake, he can't tell people "Here's what to do to make that look presentable until you can afford one that is accurate." ???
How about pictures to help compare, make his point while also helping a bit?

This gun I have may never pass as a TFDC, but it's what I have for now. I have seen others with the same gun that has been worked to look pretty good. Isn't that worth anything? Isn't it better for someone to come in with one of these, work it a little bit, and then get a better gun, and maybe even use the older gun as a loaner to help someone else get into muzzleloading? Or is spending $2000 the only price of entry?


And Clark, if you are reading this, I STILL would very much appreciate your input on where to find a good TFDC kit.

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Erwan said:

Hello,
I'm going to ask a question that's a little off-topic, or almost...
Since I've been on this forum, the term “shotgun” comes up sometimes. As it happens, I'm French (which isn't to everyone's taste, including mine, especially at this time/moment, but that's just the way it is... ). It seems that for us, a shotgun doesn't have the same meaning as for you...
For us, any weapon designed for hunting and hunting alone is called a “Fusil de chasse”. The best example is the smooth-bore shotgun designed solely for hunting, whatever its type, origin, make or era.
As this thread is about “Fusil de chasse”, in French in the text, I'd like to ask this unrelated initial question:
Can you give me a simple, basic answer so that I can set my clock back from French time to American...
THKS.
Erwan.

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