Fusil de Chasse, at last!!!

[cebusey]

Like the Corvair and the Corvette, I would be that guy to show up at a Corvette rally with a Corvair, just for the fun. lol

By the way - with a few mods the turbo corsa circa 1966 was called the "Vette Eater" by car and driver. You can't beat cubes in the long run but they embarrassed a number of stock vettes off the line.

 

[pipascus]

Dates ... it's all about the date of the arm. And quite possibly the architecture might also align to the armory that produced them.

Per Russel Bouchard's book on Tulle arms titled: The Fusil de Tulle in New France, 1691-1741 (copyright 1998), the flat-faced locks began in 1716 for the contracts to the Tvlle (early spelling) or Tulle Armory.

I am only interested in FdC's from Tulle, so I sold off my book on the Native FdC trade guns by Kevin Gladysz, titled: The French Trade Gun in North America, 1662-1759 (copyright 2011), as it focused on arms from St. Entienne. I read it 3-times and underlined/dog-eared every page that mentioned Tulle and the info was scarce.

Oh, one 'nit pick' and pet peeve while I have you all ... I'd like to correct people in the pronunciation 'Fusil de Chasse'. Fusil is phonetically pronounced as 2 syllables, as in 'fusee', but Chasse is only pronouced as 1 syllable as 'chas', and not a long 'a' either. That use is when it is used as a noun for the word hunt, i.e., FdC = Gun of the Hunt. When one would use the word hunt as a verb as in hunting, then yes it would be pronounced as 2 syllables, as in 'chass-say'.

Thank you for that.
Being a Spanish speaker, and having failed French in high school, unfortunately, I figured it is pronounced 'foo-zee deh shass'. I think that's what you mean. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[pipascus]

If you go do some shooting with real black powder, clean with water, and wipe the dirty damp patches on the brass they will tarnish and darken quickly.

Only real black powder for me! I shoot it in my cartridge guns when I shoot CAS.

And thank you. I will do that.

 

[Erwan]

I just got my fusil de chasse from The Muzzleloader Shop

Hello,
I'm going to ask a question that's a little off-topic, or almost...
Since I've been on this forum, the term “shotgun” comes up sometimes. As it happens, I'm French (which isn't to everyone's taste, including mine, especially at this time/moment, but that's just the way it is... ). It seems that for us, a shotgun doesn't have the same meaning as for you...
For us, any weapon designed for hunting and hunting alone is called a “Fusil de chasse”. The best example is the smooth-bore shotgun designed solely for hunting, whatever its type, origin, make or era.
As this thread is about “Fusil de chasse”, in French in the text, I'd like to ask this unrelated initial question:
Can you give me a simple, basic answer so that I can set my clock back from French time to American...
THKS.
Erwan.

 

[pipascus]

I ordered a few things:

• Track of the Wolf full size drawing of a Fusil de Chasse. I figure this will help with measurements and changes.
• Cabinet Scraper Cards set: straight and curved
• Mini Scrapers to get into tight areas.
• A saw rasp

I already own:

• Set of small diamond files
• Set of small regular files
• Several regular files: bastards, rat-tail...
• Mini planers
• sanding block
• Small detail chisels. These are cheap harbor freight specials, but it's what I can afford right now. I will use my diamond sharpening plates kit to make them usable.
• Small gouges set. These are also cheap harbor freight specials, but it's what I can afford right now. I will use my diamond sharpening plates kit to make them usable.
• Dremel and attachments. Not for much as I think it can ruin a piece in one swift moment, but I think good for polishing or maybe very careful minim al use.
• Portable vise. Again, not ideal, but better than nothing and I can't bring a big vice into my setup right now.

I also have the books Gunsmith of Grenville County and Recreating the American Longrifle, along with a book on making powder horns and shooting bags, though I have to find them in storage.
Have been downloading photos of fusil de chasse fowlers when I find them, and some from this thread also (thank you to those who posted them)

I carved a tomahawk handle years ago using a Swiss Army Knife...

So I think I can do OK with some patience.


Here are some photos of my Jim Chambers Mark Silver Rifle from when I was able to work on it a bit in 2007...

 

[pipascus]

Hello,
I'm going to ask a question that's a little off-topic, or almost...
Since I've been on this forum, the term “shotgun” comes up sometimes. As it happens, I'm French (which isn't to everyone's taste, including mine, especially at this time/moment, but that's just the way it is... ). It seems that for us, a shotgun doesn't have the same meaning as for you...
For us, any weapon designed for hunting and hunting alone is called a “Fusil de chasse”. The best example is the smooth-bore shotgun designed solely for hunting, whatever its type, origin, make or era.
As this thread is about “Fusil de chasse”, in French in the text, I'd like to ask this unrelated initial question:
Can you give me a simple, basic answer so that I can set my clock back from French time to American...
THKS.
Erwan.

Hello!
No reason to have any negative feelings about your heritage! Every single country/heritage has it's share of greatness and shameful moments: French, Spanish, English, African, American Indian, etc.
I am of Cuban birth and Spanish/Lebanese/Canary Island heritage from what I have been told. Growing up, I heard the term "fusil" (pronounced 'foo-seel' by us) referring to a rifle or maybe short rifles, which I have also heard called "carabina" for 'carbine'. It could just be a dialect thing or mis-labeling. Shotguns are called "escopeta" (es-copeh-tah)

As far as your question, you can either look at the world time zones, or you will have to find a time machine... Or, find a Delorean and make your own...

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

... I STILL would very much appreciate your input on where to find a good TFDC kit.

@pipascus - Problem is ... NO ONE really makes an excellent one!

-The stock should be walnut, or fruit wood (in some cases) but definitely not maple (unless going for a re-stocked here arm)
-The barrel should be no less than 44.3" long (actual barrel measured in pieds and pouces)
-The breech sction of the barrel, where octagonal, should be tapered (most are not)
-Only 1 wedding band on the barrel, round section continually tapering (again, most don't)
-There should be facets from the oct section on the barrel to the wedding band transition, about 2-1/4" long
-Typical all iron hardware for a trade FdC
-Lock with faceted pan, of slight banana shape and flat lockplate of a certain length I forget off the top of my head. IIRC the Davis lock is often touted as being the closest, but making mine to be LH'd, I started out with a LH Trade Lock by Danny Caywood and filed the lockplate flat.
-Lock surround rear finnial shold be more of an elongated tear drop than pure heart shape, as someone above mentioned, as in the dozen+ arms depicted in Bouchar'd book, all are the teardrop style
-Side plate of a long, flat 'S' shape with circular fieze in the center (which early 1700s Tulle FdC's did not have)
-Stock shape wth quite a bit of drop to full and severe curve "I will SMACK you in the nose but good" in the pied de vache (Cow's foot) style
-Only 1 pin per ramrod pipe, whereas Track of the Wolf sold their alleged FdC plans for years showing 2 pins per pipe, sacre bleu! It has since been corrected (Hey, may be my letter to them actually did some good?)

I'm probably missing something, but you get the picture. And then again, it depends heaviliy on which specific year Contract arm are you making? If indeed to be a FdC from the Tulle armory, and not just 'any' trade gun of the hunt from the lesser - yes, lesser quality - armories.

Advise you go on Facebook and look up Alex Efremenko, plus any posts he has also put here, as he is argueably THE BEST living maker of French arms. He is very open and I had consulted within many times in my build. When it came removing wood, he said something like:

"Remove wood to make it be trim and look svelte. Do it again - all over, everywhere, as there should be no more wood than absolutely necessary to hold it all together. Be careful, that upper forend will be FRAGILE when out of the stock. Do it again, all over. And ... once you reached the point to where you firmly believed you have RUINED it ... you're done!"

 

[Erwan]

@pipascus​

A DMC-12? Yep, why not, I was a biker for my whole life, but for a DeLorean, that merit to think about.....

I'll thank you for your answer, but I'm going to stay on my hunger: how came the name "Fusil de chasse" in French for a gun that isn't French and in the USA? I do like what is the reason for this and why, maybe is it coming after a long habit to qualify that style of gun that is not specially adapted for hunting...
Never mind, one day before I die, I'll know where it's coming from...
Have a nice evening.

Erwan.

PS : I don't care 'bout my origins, it's just sometimes uncomfortable to be French and living in Absurdia by the times we live...

 

[tenngun]

Disagree tengun, an elitist doesn’t waste time on inefficient projects as learning tools.

If you want to learn how to build guns, buy a kit, the cost difference between an Indian made gun and a factory kit (beginners kit) is maybe 500-600 depending on the manufacturer.

You still need tools, time and the understanding that you need to accept your failures and learn from them.

Buying an Indian gun just to disassemble it, rework it it’s futile because there is no amount of filing, scrapping, or buffing that will make it what it is intended to be.

Now if you fell in love with an Indian made musket, and you appreciate it as it is and want to shoot it…. By all means, go for it.

But the concept of buying Indian because its cheaper and you’re willing to work on it because its cheap is just someone saying… well i dont’ want to F&ck up a higher quality kit and get laughed at.

my answer to that is find some courage to learn and take your mistakes in stride. There is no gun builder on this form that has not made a mistake they didn’t learn from.

Where is Mike Brooks ! @comfortablynumb

Who is going to laugh at it?
No one at least to the owners face
And a man who laughs behind your back isn’t worth considering.
And you do with the best parts you still end up with a repo, that’s all most of us have.
None one of us is 100%. We can’t be. Your TFC isn’t
Your camp isnt
Your clothing isn’t.
We can’t get there
We are all on a trail to do our best.
Everyone reaches a point where we say that good enough
Some are closer than others but none have got there.
Get an old recipe for apple pie, cook it in your authentic looking reflector oven. Have you tasted the past? No
We can’t get those apples any more
Salt pork? I can make it, but you can’t get eighteenth century pork, they’re extinct
Hand sew your wool and linen? That’s great, but eighteenth century century sheep are all dead.
Your tent hand seen linen canvas? Mine ain’t, and it’s a good chance you won’t be allowed in a camp with out a fireproofed tent
Your candles all beef tallow? Bees wax was pretty expensive and only the rich used them
Glassed? They had them, but few had them
You’re proud of your TFC? Does it got a hand forged iron barrel, straightness checked by a candle? On first growth walnut? No? American walnut? Awfully farby there
Well you’re just pissing in the wind.
When one gets all high and mighty and reach your point of authentic your going to have a real small camp

 

[flconch53]

All of this is why I just call mine a smoothbore.let them tell me it isn't. I have just as much fun shooting it as I would if it was an authentic copy

 

[oreclan]

Thank you for the detailed suggestions-they are quite helpful and I totally understand what you mean.
I will look at photos to use as guidance for changes.
What tools would you recommend? I imagine files and maybe some rasps? A draw knife of some kind? Sand paper, of course...



I will definitely have to take down some of the wood. It just feels too chunky to me. I hope the teak holds out.
While it may never pass as a true fusil de chasse, I hope it will at least pass as a decent looking gun.
Someone sent me a photo of theirs, reworked, and it looked very good.

As far as originals, the ones I saw (not a fusil from what I recall) were at Jim Chambers' home when I picked up my Mark Silver kit. I got to pick up a few original rifles and muskets and clearly remember how elegant and light they were.
I still plan to finish that kit, when I have a place to like in again.


This "fusil" is a project gun for me. I think I can make it look better and serve as a stop gap and later maybe a loaner, a backup, whatever.

Looking at the front sight, I thing some careful filework may give it a better shape. What do you think?

I looked quickly in two references books, The French Trade Gun in North America 1662- 1759 by Kevin Gladtsz , and French Military Small Arms Vol.I by Didier Bianchi.
Looks like you have an early , maybe 1703 style French musket.
Congratulations!
You can just take off some wood and refinish it . It will fit into any 18th century time period you want to portray !

 

[pipascus]

@pipascus - Problem is ... NO ONE really makes an excellent one!

-The stock should be walnut, or fruit wood (in some cases) but definitely not maple (unless going for a re-stocked here arm)
-The barrel should be no less than 44.3" long (actual barrel measured in pieds and pouces)
-The breech sction of the barrel, where octagonal, should be tapered (most are not)
-Only 1 wedding band on the barrel, round section continually tapering (again, most don't)
-There should be facets from the oct section on the barrel to the wedding band transition, about 2-1/4" long
-Typical all iron hardware for a trade FdC
-Lock with faceted pan, of slight banana shape and flat lockplate of a certain length I forget off the top of my head. IIRC the Davis lock is often touted as being the closest, but making mine to be LH'd, I started out with a LH Trade Lock by Danny Caywood and filed the lockplate flat.
-Lock surround rear finnial shold be more of an elongated tear drop than pure heart shape, as someone above mentioned, as in the dozen+ arms depicted in Bouchar'd book, all are the teardrop style
-Side plate of a long, flat 'S' shape with circular fieze in the center (which early 1700s Tulle FdC's did not have)
-Stock shape wth quite a bit of drop to full and severe curve "I will SMACK you in the nose but good" in the pied de vache (Cow's foot) style
-Only 1 pin per ramrod pipe, whereas Track of the Wolf sold their alleged FdC plans for years showing 2 pins per pipe, sacre bleu! It has since been corrected (Hey, may be my letter to them actually did some good?)

I'm probably missing something, but you get the picture. And then again, it depends heaviliy on which specific year Contract arm are you making? If indeed to be a FdC from the Tulle armory, and not just 'any' trade gun of the hunt from the lesser - yes, lesser quality - armories.

Advise you go on Facebook and look up Alex Efremenko, plus any posts he has also put here, as he is argueably THE BEST living maker of French arms. He is very open and I had consulted within many times in my build. When it came removing wood, he said something like:

"Remove wood to make it be trim and look svelte. Do it again - all over, everywhere, as there should be no more wood than absolutely necessary to hold it all together. Be careful, that upper forend will be FRAGILE when out of the stock. Do it again, all over. And ... once you reached the point to where you firmly believed you have RUINED it ... you're done!"

That's good information. Thanks!

I will do my best to make my current gun look good. When I can, I will try for something closer to a true TFDC.
I will check out Alex Efremenko on faceplant as well... maybe he can give me some tips.

 

[pipascus]

@pipascus​

A DMC-12? Yep, why not, I was a biker for my whole life, but for a DeLorean, that merit to think about.....

I'll thank you for your answer, but I'm going to stay on my hunger: how came the name "Fusil de chasse" in French for a gun that isn't French and in the USA? I do like what is the reason for this and why, maybe is it coming after a long habit to qualify that style of gun that is not specially adapted for hunting...
Never mind, one day before I die, I'll know where it's coming from...
Have a nice evening.

Erwan.

PS : I don't care 'bout my origins, it's just sometimes uncomfortable to be French and living in Absurdia by the times we live...

Ha! Good points.
We are all navigating the ocean of absurdia in a ship of fools it seems! But alas, we can stay sane despite the storm if we stick to our norm!

 

[pipascus]

Who is going to laugh at it?
No one at least to the owners face
And a man who laughs behind your back isn’t worth considering.
And you do with the best parts you still end up with a repo, that’s all most of us have.
None one of us is 100%. We can’t be. Your TFC isn’t
Your camp isnt
Your clothing isn’t.
We can’t get there
We are all on a trail to do our best.
Everyone reaches a point where we say that good enough
Some are closer than others but none have got there.
Get an old recipe for apple pie, cook it in your authentic looking reflector oven. Have you tasted the past? No
We can’t get those apples any more
Salt pork? I can make it, but you can’t get eighteenth century pork, they’re extinct
Hand sew your wool and linen? That’s great, but eighteenth century century sheep are all dead.
Your tent hand seen linen canvas? Mine ain’t, and it’s a good chance you won’t be allowed in a camp with out a fireproofed tent
Your candles all beef tallow? Bees wax was pretty expensive and only the rich used them
Glassed? They had them, but few had them
You’re proud of your TFC? Does it got a hand forged iron barrel, straightness checked by a candle? On first growth walnut? No? American walnut? Awfully farby there
Well you’re just pissing in the wind.
When one gets all high and mighty and reach your point of authentic your going to have a real small camp

Those are some damned good points.
I think we should do our best, but what is most important is to share the camaraderie and love of muzzleloading, and make good friends. We can strive for the best along the way.
Your statement made me think of the canoeing aspect of trekking: I would love a real birchbark canoe, but I can't afford one. An imitation birch bark canoe, shaped correctly and painted to look authentic, would be great. But if it takes a regular canoe for people to get together on a canoe trek, so be it.
Sure, a bright green or red canoe would be best at least be painted in some drab tan or something, but I can't imagine disparaging another person who wants to be part of the trek because he has a regular canoe and is trying.

 

[oreclan]

I say thing, because there is absolutely nothing on it that actually resembles a fusil de chasse. To improve it, you would need to send it back and get your money back. All the furnishings are incorrect, the stock way to curved, the rammer is a mile away from the barrel, the lock is even shaped wrong, and the front sight looks like a bayonet lug instead of a quarter moon.

That's because it's a replica of an early 18th Century French musket NOT a fusil de chase.

 

[pipascus]

All of this is why I just call mine a smoothbore.let them tell me it isn't. I have just as much fun shooting it as I would if it was an authentic copy

LOL!
Good one!
Indeed!

 

[pipascus]

I looked quickly in two references books, The French Trade Gun in North America 1662- 1759 by Kevin Gladtsz , and French Military Small Arms Vol.I by Didier Bianchi.
Looks like you have an early , maybe 1703 style French musket.
Congratulations!
You can just take off some wood and refinish it . It will fit into any 18th century time period you want to portray !

True.
I'm not gonna be running through the woods telling people "LOOK AT MY FUSIL DE CHASE!!! LOOK AT MY FUSIL DE CHASE!!!"
I want it to look good and work well.

 

[pipascus]

That's because it's a replica of an early 18th Century French musket NOT a fusil de chase.

And I wish Clark Badgett would see that, and contribute his knowledge to help. "It's not a FDC and never will be, but here's what you can do to make it look good anyway-maybe like some offshoot musket."

Clark Badgett, your knowledge would be greatly appreciated in helping me, and others, turn these flintlocks into at least guns that would look the part in the background, without too close inspection.

 

[pipascus]

That's an indication that the half cock notch in the tumbler is worn. That is a safety issue that can keep a reenactor off the field if the gun can't hold the half cock while suspended on the trigger. The tumbler is probably too soft to support the half cock function. The half cock notch should be recut and the tumbler properly hardened and tempered.

UPDATE:
I sent a text to The Muzzleloader Shop, to marty actually. He responded immediately, told the boss, and the boss called me within minutes and said he would correct the issue. He was very apologetic and very forthcoming.

These are good people and despite everything, I am glad I did business with them.

 

[FlaminCrow]

UPDATE:
I sent a text to The Muzzleloader Shop, to marty actually. He responded immediately, told the boss, and the boss called me within minutes and said he would correct the issue. He was very apologetic and very forthcoming.

These are good people and despite everything, I am glad I did business with them.

Those are good people. I try to get by there as often as I can, wish I could more often.