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1 1/2 oz #6 shot for 12 ga and buckshot

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spersky

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I measured 1 1/2 oz of #6 shot. If I use the equal volume rule. I end up with 110 grains of powder. That seems high. Does that sound right?

Also, I have some 00 buckshot. How many oz of shot do you recommend with that shot? Regular conventional loads is usually 8 pellets.

Thanks
 
There is a limit to the equal amounts rule otherwise why stop at 1 1/2oz! Why not add 1lb of shot and an equal amount of powder!!

Just try 90grn of powder or less.


I think you kinder answered your own question about the buck shot friend!

Brits.
 
Thanks

My shot horn tip is setup for 1 1/2 oz. I figure that is a great amount to start with. Therefore, I just finished reading all those great guides and they recommend equal volumes of shot and gunpowder. That is why I wanted to clarify. The gun owner said 75-90 grains is usually what I will use, so I knew when I measured 110 grains doing equal volumes something was wrong.
 
Equal volume is an old "rule of thumb" usually used when using lower than max shot charges. Most people I know who use black powder go with a three to two ratio shot to powder volume or there about. :hmm:
 
spersky said:
Thanks

My shot horn tip is setup for 1 1/2 oz. I figure that is a great amount to start with. Therefore, I just finished reading all those great guides and they recommend equal volumes of shot and gunpowder. That is why I wanted to clarify. The gun owner said 75-90 grains is usually what I will use, so I knew when I measured 110 grains doing equal volumes something was wrong.

If I recall correctly, the standard load for 12 gauge in the good old days was 1 1/8 oz of shot. A load of 1 1/2 oz is waaaaaay magnum. I'm shooting 1 1/4 oz most of the time in my 11 gauge Brown Bess, and my "magnum" load is 1 5/8 oz.

The NA 12 gauge double I used for waterfowl and upland game for so many years absolutely shone with 1 1/8 oz of shot over 80 grains of 3f or 90 grains of 2f.
 
spersky said:
My shot horn tip is setup for 1 1/2 oz. I figure that is a great amount to start with.
I have two shot pouches with English heads that are made to throw 1.1/4 or 1.1/2oz shot charges, depending on where you set the lower gate. I never shoot more than 1.1/4oz and often 1.1/8oz or 1.oz, so I cut a piece of business card to roll up and fit inside between the gates, then trimmed it down until it reduced the shot charges exactly 1/4oz, so it now throws 1.oz and 1.1/4oz. As has been mentioned, 1.1/2oz of shot is a fairly stout load in a 12ga, and is probably best saved for special purposes (like turkeys) rather than as a general-purpose load, and probably with a notably less-than-equal-volume powder charge, something in the range of 3-3.1/2dr (82-96gr).

Regards,
Joel
 
1.5 oz is a magnum load in my smokeless shotgun. Kicks like a horse too. Often less is more. Certainly wouldn't want to match that with an equal volume of powder. I think the "rule of thumb" only works in one direction. Choose a powder charge that you are comfy with and then match it with equal volume of shot.
 
You are exactly correct 110 grains on the powder measure is 1 1/2 oz of shot. I use that same amount of shot with 80 grains of 2f in my 12 ga. The amount of shot is a large amount for a 12 ga. but the powder charge is light. 70 grains of 2 f and 90 grains of shot is another great load. Use 1/3 more shot than powder. It will work in any gauge and the shot size doesn't seem to matter. I use the 70 90 load in my 20 ga. You need to pattern your load.
 
Modern shotshells have crept totally into the Magnum category, loads were much lighter in the blackpowder era. The standard 10 gauge load was only 1 1/4 ounces, ounce and a half is an 8 gauge load and 8 gauge guns normally weighed ten pounds or more to soak up the recoil. That load will be brutal in a 7 pound gun and I doubt the manufacturer would approve.
Trying to stretch the range with heavier loads is kind of like chasing your tail. Think of the pattern not in terms of diameter but of area, diameter squared. You see that as the pattern becomes twice as wide it encompasses four times the area, so to double your range you'd need to throw four times as many pellets. And even that won't do it because the pellet size which proved effective at 25 yards will lack penetration at 50 yards. So you go to a larger shot size but that reduces your pattern density, an ounce and a half of #4's contains fewer pellets than one ounce of 6's. Around and around you go and in the end you may have increased your effective range by five yards but you'll have developed such a flinch from the recoil that you can't hit anything at any distance. :haha:
I've studied shotgunning all my life, both from the mathematical approach and observing the effect on game and I've come to the conclusion there isn't much I do with a shotgun that can't be done with one ounce of 6's. That's admitting I don't hunt turkey and I've never fired a load of steel shot, but otherwise, one ounce is plenty.
 
I agree: But I am using a load used by the Illinois River Commercial Hunters back in the 1870s, and '80s, in my 12 gauge. Its 2 3/4 drams 2Fg powder, behind 1 1/4 oz. of #5 shot. They used this to kill ducks out at 50 yds. For most game, however, 1 oz. of shot is more than adequate. :hmm: :thumbsup:

I have used this load in a modern, choked shotgun with equivalent smokeless powder to Star Burst a clay target thrown from a standard trap house, with me shooting from 30 yards behind the house, and the clay just beginning to arc over the peak of its arc. That's a bit more than 50 yards from muzzle to target. I was shooting back up to my partner at an " Annie Oakley" shoot, and he had a rare MISS!

Without choke, and the added velocity gained from using smokeless powder, I CANNOT GET those results from my BP shotgun, and do not expect to do so.

The good news today, is that Capt. Fred, and Makeumsmoke have come up with shotcups made from mattress ticking fabric strips, cut so that the strip creates a cup in the muzzle. The strips are cut just wide enough that they barely overlap and cover the entire interior circumference of the barrel. They are lubricated with oil, so that they are " tacky" and "stick" to the sides of the barrel when the cup is formed, so that you can then load the shot into the cup. Cut the ends of the cup off with a patch knife, put a OS card on top and drive it down the barrel, to seat on top of your OP wad or OS cards, used in place of the OP wad.

The Oiled fabric lubes the bore, and the outer shot pellets so they move down the barrel without rubbing off lead, and getting flats on their sides. The oil cleans the barrel, and softens the residue for the next loading.


tthe fabric takes a bit more time TO OPEN UP and release the load of shot, so that you get a "CHOKED PATTERNS" from a cylinder bore barrel. The fabric drops off quickly and does not follow the shot load down range. Bill Martin( Billnpatti) just reported getting 83% patterns at 25 yards using this fabric cup method, so it does work.

If you use the larger shot sizes, like the #5 shot I use for pheasants, you lengthen the range of the typical cylinder bore shotgun using BP from 25 to 35 yards, and sometimes further. There are more pellets in the pattern, because of the reduced flattening of those outer pellets in the barrel. The pellet energy of the larger shot sizes carries energy sufficient to kill birds further down range.

Now, this does not make a "Magnum" out of any BP shotgun, but it certainly allows hunters to shoot game in the range where they are likely to have high percentage hits with any gun. :hmm: 40 yard shots are memorable, because few shooters can regularly hit targets consistently at that distance. Anything further than that is usually a wish and a lot of HOPE.

Yes, all of us have killed birds at unconscionable distances one time or another. Most of get over telling those stories to shooters, and promise ourselves not to take such a long shot again. :hmm: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:
 
Great read guys. I just picked up a BP shotgun so this is going to come in handy.
Thanks
Ray
 
hardtimes said:
Great read guys. I just picked up a BP shotgun so this is going to come in handy.
Thanks
Ray

That's good news Ray. They're really addictive, and when you consider most shotgun hunting- limited range and occasional shots- a muzzleloader really does fit a lot of circumstances.

In my experience you'll have the most fun if you follow the KISS principle, at first any way. It's just a lot more fun if you don't have carry a bunchacrap and fiddle lots. Only when KISS loads don't perform to your specific needs do you need to start refining and "improving" things.

If you can deliver killing patterns at 25-30 yards with basic components and simple loading procedures, it's sure a lot more enjoyable to hunt.

Fiddling is for concerts and not hunting. :v:
 
I like the KISS method. I was just going to order some shot and wads from Track of the Wolf and see how it goes.
 
Creating a shotcup for a shot load, using ticking fabric, is no more complicated than using a ticking fabric patch around a Round Ball. YOu traditionally cut strips to do this, and either suck on the end to wet it with spit, or otherwise wipe it over some lube carried any number of ways before putting the strip over the muzzle, and starting a RB down with either thumb pressure, or with a short starter. You use a patch knife to trim the patch at the muzzle, just as you would to cut off the strips that form your shotcup.

EASY. KISS.

If you make a "shortstarter" for form the shotcup with one shove, it becomes even more simply and more easy to make the cup and load it with shot. The shank of the starter has to be enough undersized that it does not stick to the sides of the lubed fabric and pull it back out. The starter has to be just long enough to make a cup deep enough to hold the shot load you want to use. I am using a gauge or caliber UNDERSIZED OS card in front of the short starter, so that the end of the starter does not stick to oiled fabric, and instead pushes down on a clean, Dry, hard, slick surface of the OS card.

For example, for a 20 gauge, use 24 gauge OS cards .58 caliber). The card also helps to form the bottom of the cup, keeping it SQUARE to the bore. And that card will give a hard, flat surface to push the shot load out of the barrel's muzzle at the same time, improving patterns. For a 12 gauge, use a 16 gauge OS card; for a 10 gauge, use a 12 gauge OS card; for a 24 gauge, use a 28 gauge OS card; and for a 28 gauge, use a .50 caliber ( 36 gauge) OS wad. The thin, (.010") OS cards can be perforated with an off-center hole, using an awl, or nail, so that air will cause them to quickly drop away from the shot and fall to the ground. Until the shot separates from the oiled fabric, the card will fly with the shot, taking it a bit further down range than if it was used without the fabric shotcup. We are talking feet- not yards, however.

Since I use OS cards for my gun now, I am only adding one additional item to carry - the undersized OS card, with the oiled ticking strips, which I roll up and carry in a plastic sandwich baggie. I already make a habit of carrying a towel to wipe my hands when I am hunting or shooting my BP shotguns, and often supplement the hand towel with paper towels carried in my game pouch.

Considering the improvement in pattern performance using the oiled ticking strips, I think its well worth doing this for certain kinds of hunting. Shooting rabbits, at close ranges, hardly qualifies for such effort, however. And, the same can be said for most squirrel hunting, as squirrels are rarely shot at ranges in excess of 25 yards.

In fact, most rabbits can be walked up on close enough to use a revolver to shoot them in the head. Using more than a half oz. of shot to kill rabbits seems to be a waste of lead, IMHO, and only necessary if you are shooting at running, bounding rabbits on the fly. It is this kind of hunting where a cylinder bore shotgun with a bare lead load shines, because it gives the biggest patterns to allow a hit on an animal that can almost jump over your shot pattern on occasion. :hmm: :thumbsup:
 
Let me get this straight cause I am a noobie.

1) You put the powder in the barrel.
2) Then you put an over powder card.
3) you put in the lubed shot fabric ticking cup cutting the excess.
4) finally you use the over the shot card?

You skip the lubed wadding step since the fabric is like the lubed wadding.

Thanks
 
Paul
I load the ticking shot cups slightly different than you.
I fold the cloth over the bottom of a brass pipe holding the cloth with two fingers. Then dump the shot in the other end. Then insert pipe in barrel and pull the pipe out. forms a much better shot cup this way.I use 1/2 id for 12ga and 5/8 id for 10ga because I have such tight chokes in all my shotguns.
 
Paul, you said "tthe fabric takes a bit more time TO OPEN UP and release the load of shot, so that you get a "CHOKED PATTERNS" from a cylinder bore barrel. The fabric drops off quickly and does not follow the shot load down range. Bill Martin( Billnpatti) just reported getting 83% patterns at 25 yards using this fabric cup method, so it does work."

I've found that pattern percentages tend to degrade with increasing range at the rate of, very roughly, 10% for each five yards. Given that, then 83% at 25 yards would be somewhere around 53% at the standard testing distance of 40 yards. That's in the improved cylinder range and that is for sure an improvement over most cylinder bore patterns I've seen. Again, that being just a very rough extrapolation, only actual shooting at 40 yards could confirm. :thumbsup:
 

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