1137 vs 12L14 for muzzleloader barrels

[Blackpowder8bore]

Looking for info about which steel is better for muzzleloader rifle barrels. There are barrel companies that use both. The company I'm using asked me what kind of steel I wanted for my barrel and i was caught off guard. It's my choice. The builder is Not a steel expert he's a muzzleloader builder so it's my choice.

Anyone who knows which one withstands more pressure please leave a reply.i couldn't find an answer by searching.

Thanks for your help


*** Update***
I was given the choice by the barrel maker as 12l14 or 4140 only so I picked 4140!! Can't go wrong now.

 

[smokepolehall]

Looking for info about which steel is better for muzzleloader barrels. There are barrel companies that use both. The company I'm using asked me what kind of steel I wanted for my barrel and i was caught off guard. It's my choice. The builder is Not a steel expert he's a muzzleloader builder so it's my choice.

Anyone who knows which one withstands more pressure please leave a reply.i couldn't find an answer by searching.

Thanks for your help

12L14 contains Lead, that is what the L stands for. To me as a country bumbkin the 1137 steel would be my choice of the 2 round bar stock steels. Now if your bbl maker has it n you can swing the extra samolians then 4140 n 4150 are quality bbl steels of the modern type

 

[Blackpowder8bore]

12L14 contains Lead, that is what the L stands for. To me as a country bumbkin the 1137 steel would be my choice of the 2 round bar stock steels. Now if your bbl maker has it n you can swing the extra samolians then 4140 n 4150 are quality bbl steels of the modern type

Thanks for your help, that's what I was looking for.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Don't worry so much about pressure. Any steel used to make barrels ought to hold up to any pressure level you would care to load up to, otherwise it isn't an appropriate material for barrels. Wear resistance, machinability and resistance to rust are much more important factors than what pressure level the barrel will hold up to.

I would ask your barrel maker what he would recommend, then look at the spec sheets for each steel, solicit other opinions (which you have done), think about it for a few days and THEN make your decision.

In the end, you will be happy with either one and most people (myself included.... and I am a blacksmith) have no idea what kind of steel their guns are made of. Honestly, I would pay serious coin to have a blued stainless barrel for all of my guns. So far as I am aware though, nobody makes such a beast. This is not surprising as stainless steels gall and are notoriously difficult to machine accurately... also, they are not especially traditional, which is important to most on this forum.

 

[Rifleman1776]

What others have said is point on. I have used 12L14 (Douglas) barrels extensively over the years with no problems. They are extremly accurate. From reading about the issue, it appears if there is an over pressure incident the 12L14 barrels will split. The harder and/or BGQS will shatter. Pick yer pizzen.

 

[rich pierce]

People coming from modern guns overthink barrel steels.

 

[centershot]

People coming from modern guns overthink barrel steels.

Yes, sometimes they do. Up into the mid-19th century gun barrels were made of wrought iron, which handled BP pressures very well. There's no need to worry about today's steels, it's just a matter of machinability, corrosion resistance, etc.........Now, a blued stainless steel barrel - that would be something!

 

[Blackpowder8bore]

Yes, sometimes they do. Up into the mid-19th century gun barrels were made of wrought iron, which handled BP pressures very well. There's no need to worry about today's steels, it's just a matter of machinability, corrosion resistance, etc.........Now, a blued stainless steel barrel - that would be something!

i would choose 4140 based on corrosion resistance alone

People coming from modern guns overthink barrel steels.

Lol it's irresponsible not to care what your stuff is made of.if it didn't matter they wouldn't have different levels of steel.12l14 has very little corrosion resistance compared to 4140 and is inferior in every way.im running the max powder load and heavy conical with 777,a corrosive powder.
It's prudent to care.

 

[FlinterNick]

I’m not sure what barrel makers today are offering a choice of steel. I know Ed Rayl uses 8620. Hoyt uses 8620 for rifles and 12L14 for smoothbores. 4140 or 4150 steel would be ideal but good luck finding someone that can make it for you at a reasonable price.

I’ve been using 12L14 gun barrels for years with no problems, no rust no cracks or bulges. Treat your guns right keep them clean and they’ll last a life time.

 

[rich pierce]

Lol it's irresponsible not to care what your stuff is made of.if it didn't matter they wouldn't have different levels of steel.12l14 has very little corrosion resistance compared to 4140 and is inferior in every way.im running the max powder load and heavy conical with 777,a corrosive powder.
It's prudent to care.

Might as well go center fire. Not my cup of tea. Round ball and black powder is what I consider when I comment here. I forget that times have changed. It would help to specify intended use, I guess.

 

[springfield art]

12L14 contains Lead, that is what the L stands for. To me as a country bumbkin the 1137 steel would be my choice of the 2 round bar stock steels. Now if your bbl maker has it n you can swing the extra samolians then 4140 n 4150 are quality bbl steels of the modern type

Haven't heard the term "samolians" since my dad was alive!

 

[bud in pa]

As I understand Rice uses 4140 for lightweight smoothbore barrels. I guess that they feel safer making a light weight smoothbore barrel with a stronger steel.

 

[fleener]

You state it is your choice, then why would you go with a weaker steel? Choose the steel that has better strength.

I have a choice and I choose to pick barrels that are not made of 12L14 steel, if I have a choice. I might have a 12L14 barrel in a ML, I am not sure. I do know that for those that I have a choice, they are not 12L14. They are from barrel makers that used stronger steel then 12L14.

I have a few old guns and yes I shoot them. That is my choice. To shoot them or not shoot them. I dont have a choice of what they made their barrels from in 1850.

Fleener

 

[Uncle Miltie]

A shooting mentor and good friend (an expert rifleman and gunsmith) was seriously injured when a barrel made from 12L14 steel let go in the early '80's. A number of people were hurt by them.

 

[longcruise]

A shooting mentor and good friend (an expert rifleman and gunsmith) was seriously injured when a barrel made from 12L14 steel let go in the early '80's. A number of people were hurt by them.

I personally don't have a dog in this "disagreement", but there are thousands of barrels out there made of 12L14 and millions of shots out of them without a rash of failures. Barrel makers are still making them. If barrels had failed due to inadequate strength they would have long ago been put out of business by the lawsuits.

 

[smokepolehall]

12L14 is not used for gun barrels due to its strength and toughness, it is used because it is extremely easy to machine and cut the rifling in.

My Pa told me when i was a very young boy in the Ms. Delta that you could lead a Mule to water but never can make them drink

 

[Tyler L]

I've seen this debate come up before on the forum, but when 4140 is mentioned, what state are we assuming it is in?

Annealed 4140 and cold drawn 12L14 have the same yield strength believe it or not: 60200 psi.
Normalized 4140 has a yield of 95000 psi.
Quenched and tempered 4140 can get around 140000 psi.
(Cold drawn 1137 is about 84000 psi for reference.)

 

[smokepolehall]

This is not a debate, its a fact about the quality of steel available
The following are properties for some of the common barrel steel used.
12L14
Tensile strength 78,300 PSI, Yield strength 60,200 PSI

1137
Tensile strength 108,000 PSI, Yield strength 76,100 PSI

1144
Tensile strength 108,000 PSI, Yield strength 89,900 PSI

4140
Tensile strength 148,000 PSI, Yield strength 95,000 PSI

 

[Tyler L]

I say debate because if a barrel manufacturer advertises "4140" and sources plain old multi-purpose 4140 to save a buck, it's possibly no stronger than a 12L14 barrel. If on the other hand, he uses "hardened" or "stress relieved" 4140 (the 95000 psi stuff) you're indeed getting a superior barrel.


*Of course even the softest 4140 is going to have better corrosion resistance than 12L14.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

I personally don't have a dog in this "disagreement", but there are thousands of barrels out there made of 12L14 and millions of shots out of them without a rash of failures. Barrel makers are still making them. If barrels had failed due to inadequate strength they would have long ago been put out of business by the lawsuits.

I believe it is why Douglas quit making muzzleloader barrels.