12g double barrel percussion shotgun

[WALT53]

Been wanting one of these for awhile to shoot everything from PRB to bird & buck shot with. Would probably shoot round ball more often than shot, & want a double barrel that does both & can group decent enough w PRB out to a good 50yd or better if possible

Prefer barrels 20-27”

Trying to keep it under $500 & less is better. Know that’s not easy to come by as many of the replica’s go for way too much

Was about to pull the trigger the trigger on a Pietta on here but someone snatched it up b4 I did

Kinda like the idea of an original & ironically Rhodes often go for less than replica’s, like Sharp’s rifle’s always seem too as well, but not sure I should trust round ball out of an old one?

Anyways, any recommendations

I’d look at a smooth bore that’s made to shoot RB shot and buck not a double but that’s me .

 

[Gordoncourtney]

You will find double shot guns with heavy barrels and even sights. Holts advertise them as shot and ball guns even though both barrels are smooth

 

[TRex87]

I have a SPANISH dbl, CONN VALLEY ARMS, mfg for / sold, 40 yrs ago sold by the dealer in DEEP RIVER. CONN. and with a square load of T-7. 3 and 1 half draghms and hornets nest for wadding it will print at 3 inches apart at 40 yards. with a lead cast 720 dia rb. hope this helps?

This does help

Do u mean 3” groups at 40yd when firing each barrel once?

Or u talking about 3 or 5 shot groups?

 

[TRex87]

1850 percussion cape rifle by Hollis England 1/48 twist just measured it for you .

Is the 1/48 twist in both barrels?

Assuming it wouldn’t work so well w shot?

Nice rifle

 

[TRex87]

T:Rex 87:
You need to post a wanted ad in the classified section. This section is for smoothbore discussions and members should not post what they have for sale here.
Thanks
Nit Wit

Ok thanks

Looks like my post was already edited, down to proper discussion for this section

Mostly just trying to get some good info & the guys have been helping out a lot with that

Wasn’t sure if I had enough posts to post in the sale section. I don’t post just to rack up numbers, trying to let it happen organically

 

[Colonial Boy]

Ribs- upper and lower- Look carefully for any separation from the barrels. Acidic flux was sometime used. Over the years corrosion can form on the steel beneath the solder joint. This will cause the joint itself to weaken and fail. Look for any evidence of a gap between the rib and barrel. Sometimes you can see the corrosion (rust) peeking out from a seam or a hole in the solder. Any repairs to fix this will completely change the patina and look of an antique. Sometimes you will see oxidation, too. This is a white chalky layer that forms on lead based solder. Oxidation is not as much of a concern as corrosion.

A friend had the experience of having both barrels go off at once, traced it to corrosion finally giving way between the barrels.
When the barrels were separated acid corrosion was end to end.

 

[bud in pa]

Weren't there doubles called Paradox Guns? They had an extremely slow twist, something 1in 100.

 

[TRex87]

A friend had the experience of having both barrels go off at once, traced it to corrosion finally giving way between the barrels.
When the barrels were separated acid corrosion was end to end.

Wow, that’s not a good day!

 

[TRex87]

Weren't there doubles called Paradox Guns? They had an extremely slow twist, something 1in 100.

Sounds vaguely familiar but no sure myself

 

[Colonial Boy]

Have a look here [unmentionable]
https://www.thefield.co.uk/reviews/gun-reviews/holland-holland-paradox
I seem to remember seeing a muzzle loader that had the last six inches of each barrel rifled.

 

[toot]

I have a spirit level glow sight that attachés on to the center barrel rib, it slide up & down at any distance that you want it. it is also magnetic also so it will not come off when firring. any onelse have one of them? just curious.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I love finding a good solid antique and bringing it back to service.

I call those, "having good bones", and @Relic shooter, "worthy".

When looking at an antique shotgun, I'm really picky about barrel condition.

Ribs- upper and lower- Look carefully for any separation from the barrels. Acidic flux was sometime used. Over the years corrosion can form on the steel beneath the solder joint. This will cause the joint itself to weaken and fail. Look for any evidence of a gap between the rib and barrel. Sometimes you can see the corrosion (rust) peeking out from a seam or a hole in the solder. Any repairs to fix this will completely change the patina and look of an antique. Sometimes you will see oxidation, too. This is a white chalky layer that forms on lead based solder. Oxidation is not as much of a concern as corrosion.

Barrel delamination- Look up how "twist steel" barrels are made. Most of the older shotguns are of this construction. These layers, or coils, can sometimes delaminate due to conditions. I use a nickel to bounce all along the ribs to check for rib separation, and all over the barrels to check for delamination. If you land on a problem area, your nickel will give a thud instead of a dink. I walk away from anything that thuds, no matter how much I like the gun.

Bore condition- That delamination is caused by rust and corrosion eating pits into the bore and then creeping into the layers of the twist. For me, If the bores are any more than very lightly pitted on these barrels, I choose to pass. Surface rust, though, can be polished off.

If you are going to be shooting round balls out of antique barrels, I would make sure that they are not tightly patched. I don't use modern plastic shot cups in an antique barrel, either. I stick with lubed felt wads and overshot cards.

I also keep in mind that I am shooting a gun that is 150+ years old.

Good luck with your search!

With many satisfied shooters, its hard to go wrong with a Pietta or Pedersoli double.

Take your time if you decide to purchase an antique, foremost for safety, but also for value and resale.

Oh I love relic looking double barrels with loose ribs, nobody is interested in them !!!!
I often find hardly any solder is used to secure the ribs , so gently remove them , just tap a knife gently under the rib . Then you can do a real good job of getting all the corrosion of and de rust . Re assemble with a good thick epoxy, nobody will know or be any the wiser. Good job done simple easy

I love finding a good solid antique and bringing it back to service.

I call those, "having good bones", and @Relic shooter, "worthy".

When looking at an antique shotgun, I'm really picky about barrel condition.

Ribs- upper and lower- Look carefully for any separation from the barrels. Acidic flux was sometime used. Over the years corrosion can form on the steel beneath the solder joint. This will cause the joint itself to weaken and fail. Look for any evidence of a gap between the rib and barrel. Sometimes you can see the corrosion (rust) peeking out from a seam or a hole in the solder. Any repairs to fix this will completely change the patina and look of an antique. Sometimes you will see oxidation, too. This is a white chalky layer that forms on lead based solder. Oxidation is not as much of a concern as corrosion.

Barrel delamination- Look up how "twist steel" barrels are made. Most of the older shotguns are of this construction. These layers, or coils, can sometimes delaminate due to conditions. I use a nickel to bounce all along the ribs to check for rib separation, and all over the barrels to check for delamination. If you land on a problem area, your nickel will give a thud instead of a dink. I walk away from anything that thuds, no matter how much I like the gun.

Bore condition- That delamination is caused by rust and corrosion eating pits into the bore and then creeping into the layers of the twist. For me, If the bores are any more than very lightly pitted on these barrels, I choose to pass. Surface rust, though, can be polished off.

If you are going to be shooting round balls out of antique barrels, I would make sure that they are not tightly patched. I don't use modern plastic shot cups in an antique barrel, either. I stick with lubed felt wads and overshot cards.

I also keep in mind that I am shooting a gun that is 150+ years old.

Good luck with your search!

With many satisfied shooters, its hard to go wrong with a Pietta or Pedersoli double.

Take your time if you decide to purchase an antique, foremost for safety, but also for value and resale.

I love double barrels with loose ribs as nobody wants them so bids are very low. So little solder is used that ribs often break away over time ( I don’t mean a relic but sometimes, even they are a winner .) Just depends on you skills and lots of hours to be spent .

If they are a bit loose a bit of epoxy may solve it , but I gently tap a thin knife under the rib and crack the solder joint , patience you don’t want to bend the actual rib . Then clean up the large amount of rust and corrosion and solder between the barrels. Check the rib fits perfect then tape it up with thick epoxy. A good job easily and well done. The photos are good guns with ribs peeling off , two are cape rifles. All three done by me, Remember lots of patience needed Enjoy

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Is the 1/48 twist in both barrels?

Assuming it wouldn’t work so well w shot?

Nice rifle

No just the left barrel is rifled the right barrel smooth

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I think it was called Paradox rifling.

Not sure who all used it though.

I trust Graeme Wright will not mind me showing a few photos of his wonderful book , it’s a must have for modern double rifle shooters like me , He does a whole chapter on paradox double rifles. I must point out paradox rifles are unmentionable on this forum, but it’s educational history , so it might pass for a few days

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I trust Graeme Wright will not mind me showing a few photos of his wonderful book , it’s a must have for modern double rifle shooters like me , He does a whole chapter on paradox double rifles. I must point out paradox rifles are unmentionable on this forum, but it’s educational history , so it might pass for a few days

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I had so much trouble down loading photos then it goes through twice

 

[TransYank]

You are so lucky with hunting in USA. My hunting farms have dried up , sold off , since 2012 , but we have plenty of old guns from across Europe see Holts auction uk just collect now . Not a lot to hunt in uk anyway, more deer on road kill than hunting . Too many rules and regulations. Uk is not a gunny country ,

I am lucky at 81 to have a 100 yard garden so I get squirrels, foxes and pigeons, but I can only use 177 and 22 pcp bsa Scorpio pump up airguns.


I win some tatty ones at auction for around £150 to do up, not quite relics shotguns and occasional cape rifle Rifles I go for better quality I make new stocks out of English walnut at around £55 a slab.

I have been collecting for years, just like guns. About a third were cheap tatty things with broken stocks etc , but I enjoy making new stocks, Wife always moaning, why don’t you sell them, we could have a nice holiday , turn the heating up , it’s freezing west of London today inside or out , drink tea to keep warm , ha ha. Enjoy

Ps I just measured the twist on a. 1840 cape rifle and the left barrel had a 1/48” twist right barrel smooth bore

Boy I wish I had the ability to make a stock from scratch. Or was younger to be an apprentice..

 

[Rebel bull]

CVA made a SxS 12ga. and 58 caliber rifle if memory service.

my rifle barrels are 50 cal but I've never got around to shooting the shotgun or rifle barrels

 

[Gordoncourtney]

My grandad was a school woodwork master , I guess he watches over me .

 

[TFoley]

Did anyone ever produce a double barrel with one barrel having a very slow twist? That way the rifled barrel would spread shot close in and also shoot round ball further away. The smooth bore would shoot shot further away and round ball close in. A simple set of fixed sights would suffice if regulated to the rifled bore.

As Mr Courtney points out, a couple of posts above, this is called a Cape Gun, after the locale that made it's practical usage famous. Good luck finding ANY shootable example under $1500 - 2000, especially in the USA.