12L14 Steel good enough?

[Uncle Miltie]

Douglas made countless thousands of barrels from it. I still have two rifles with Douglas barrels. They are highly accurate. Go for it.

And the reason Douglas quit making muzzle loading barrels all together was after a number of 12L14 barrels exploded.

 

[Frontstuffer070]

My only question is why did they explode? I don't think they make a barrel strong enough to protect people from themselves. I've personally seen more than one 4150 CMV barrel come back peeled like a banana. No way in haites a standard round did it. But the company replaced it no questions. For my use, I don't believe a .750" hole in a 2" chamber and 50 grains of powder is gonna make it come apart. But again I'm no metallurgist, just from my reading I believe that steel is gonna be just fine.

 

[Rudyard]

It has a wonderful reputation for smooth and easy machining.

But if your being wicked authentic you need impurity ridden iron full of 'grays' and preferably leaking here & there .. .You want to live forever ?.
Rudyard's
take on the matter

 

[smokepolehall]

The main reason so many barrels were made from 12L14 is it's common cheap bar stock steel. There are better grades for a few more dollars like 8620

 

[Uncle Miltie]

My only question is why did they explode? I don't think they make a barrel strong enough to protect people from themselves. I've personally seen more than one 4150 CMV barrel come back peeled like a banana. No way in haites a standard round did it. But the company replaced it no questions. For my use, I don't believe a .750" hole in a 2" chamber and 50 grains of powder is gonna make it come apart. But again I'm no metallurgist, just from my reading I believe that steel is gonna be just fine.

They were said to have failed during normal use. John Baird wrote a number of articles on the matter in his publication The Buckskin Report.

 

[Frontstuffer070]

They were said to have failed during normal use. John Baird wrote a number of articles on the matter in his publication The Buckskin Report.

This does have me curious. I believe my Made in USA stamped CVA Mountain rifle has a Douglas made barrel. I wonder if it is 12L14. Heck, all the Spaniard made sidelocks are probalby that grade of steel as well, just going by the price point of them.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

This does have me curious. I believe my Made in USA stamped CVA Mountain rifle has a Douglas made barrel. I wonder if it is 12L14. Heck, all the Spaniard made sidelocks are probalby that grade of steel as well, just going by the price point of them.

The CVA and others were likely made of gun barrel steel, which is not expensive.
12L14 steel was used because of its high lead content for easy machinability.
Most people think the soft iron barrels on old guns were much more fragile than barrels made of modern steel and that could certainly be said for proper gun barrel steel. But soft iron is tougher than many folks think and may be more durable than some modern steel in terms of fracturing, especially in extremes of heat and cold.
I am not a metallurgist and don't pretend to be one but there is a lot on the internet in regard to using 12L14 for gun barrels, something it was not designed or intended for.

And Douglas quit making muzzleloader barrels for a reason.

 

[Bucks Co]

I think Douglas quit for purely economic reasons - cut rifled M/L barrels cost so much more to make than Buttoned and the market was probably not worth the effort. I've used a number of Douglas Barrels over the years - all awesome shooters. My 40 Bedford still going strong after over 30 years.

 

[Rudyard]

The main reason so many barrels were made from 12L14 is it's common cheap bar stock steel. There are better grades for a few more dollars like 8620

Common & cheap is.nt against it .Me. I prefer Damascus barrels any nations preferable to fancy boring steel .
Rudyard the devils advocate

 

[Rudyard]

I think Douglas quit for purely economic reasons - cut rifled M/L barrels cost so much more to make than Buttoned and the market was probably not worth the effort. I've used a number of Douglas Barrels over the years - all awesome shooters. My 40 Bedford still going strong after over 30 years.I

Naaah Your only saying that because it true I know that rifle its a beutifully mellowed Bedford & a great credit to the makers Ive seen it trounce 451 target rifles .
Rudyard who knows a bit about these things .

 

[Helens3]

12L14 is used a whole bunch in the screw machine and cnc parts where a free machining steel is needed and the part is light to medium duty application.

It case hardens fine, but welds crappy.

I would use it for stuff like a pin boss or a doorknob and air holes fittings.

Nickel plating makes it look good with a tough skin.

 

[Rudyard]

12L14 is used a whole bunch in the screw machine and cnc parts where a free machining steel is needed and the part is light to medium duty application.

It case hardens fine, but welds crappy.

I would use it for stuff like a pin boss or a doorknob and air holes fittings.

Nickel plating makes it look good with a tough skin.

Its no match for impurity ridden iron such as the poster sought for his' hand Gonne'

They were said to have failed during normal use. John Baird wrote a number of articles on the matter in his publication The Buckskin Report.

John dingle hoofer Barid wrote a lot of things in his' Buckskin Report even ran one of my articles !.(How degenerate !) Some berket wrote a heap of twaddel insulting Jerry Cunninghan who made thousands of barrels .The berket had made none .I know who I believed & I sold & used up a lot of his barrels. very wise man Mr Cunningham. proper Gentleman he didnt go messing with others wives & got stabbed for doing so like some did .No names, no pack drill .His JDs miopic fixation with Hawkens had many believing that stuff But Charles Hanson put the fable straight (. I've made two ,the customer is allways right) .but ide never lug that much iron anywhere .
Rudyard' take on this matter

 

[sdilts]

Rice uses 12L14 for their barrels. Nuff said.

 

[borne2fly]

The main reason so many barrels were made from 12L14 is it's common cheap bar stock steel. There are better grades for a few more dollars like 8620

I’ve made a number of automotive gears from 8620. It’s easily case-hardened and made for durable wear surfaces

 

[OldGunsmith]

Douglas made countless thousands of barrels from it. I still have two rifles with Douglas barrels. They are highly accurate. Go for it.

12l14 is why Douglas does not make M/L barrels any more. That should tell you something.

 

[Bucks Co]

I read an article many years ago when they were discussing steel for M/L tubes and they glued a plug into a cardboard mailing tube and discovered it would sustain any "reasonable" black powder load they tried in it! So where's the problem with 12L14? Especially as some very respected barrel makers are still using it. Any idiot can make a barrel fail - short seating/ wrong type of powder/neglect - look in a mirror don't blame the steel used!

 

[Sam squanch]

The CVA and others were likely made of gun barrel steel, which is not expensive.
12L14 steel was used because of its high lead content for easy machinability.
Most people think the soft iron barrels on old guns were much more fragile than barrels made of modern steel and that could certainly be said for proper gun barrel steel. But soft iron is tougher than many folks think and may be more durable than some modern steel in terms of fracturing, especially in extremes of heat and cold.
I am not a metallurgist and don't pretend to be one but there is a lot on the internet in regard to using 12L14 for gun barrels, something it was not designed or intended for.

And Douglas quit making muzzleloader barrels for a reason.

Look at the thread where an Indian matchlock barrel was sawn in half. The two culprits said it was very hard to do!

 

[Rudyard]

I read an article many years ago when they were discussing steel for M/L tubes and they glued a plug into a cardboard mailing tube and discovered it would sustain any "reasonable" black powder load they tried in it! So where's the problem with 12L14? Especially as some very respected barrel makers are still using it. Any idiot can make a barrel fail - short seating/ wrong type of powder/neglect - look in a mirror don't blame the steel used!

Yes I recall that test report & the' Charpie' waffle from the opposition who never made a barrel. While Jerry Cunningham made hundreds & more . Ile be the devils advocate and state I prefer the widely the condemned Damascus & good twist barrels of any nation , If like steel there doubtless where cheaper less well made barrels Greener goes on at length to the range of Qualities used from'' Charcoal Iron' 'Mr Wisswolds iron' 'Two penny Wednesbury scelp'down to'Sham Dam' stating for the last it was" All that poachers deserved " American moderns condemn any sort of twist which they useually call' Damascus' which mostly it isn't .What gives the dog a bad name is so many old as oft cheap guns made to use black powder after many years of farm abuse and had the short chambering .Wife goes to town " We need some more cartridges !" They sell the nitro supper pooper longer case offerings star crimps General stores don't cater for black powder these days. So into the much neglected ' off the face 'old gun and ?. Well many stood regardless but others failed . due to neglect & abuse beyond reasonable bounds . Net result the magnumitus' experts 'condemn all such guns out of hand . Hundreds of fine guns now flood the market in NZ due to a belief, it might be true that the imposed steel shot for waterfowl will harm the old guns. Nitro proofed hammerless guns


I've never seen steel or bismuth shot will stay with my preferred muzzle loaders
if I was invited as' guest gun' in an English syndicate where I couldn't take my muzzle loaders since they slowed the line & not rendered evidently 'empty' at fences, So I took my pinfire (I had no central fires ) and had a good day .
Make a note in your bad book." .
That Rudyard is an Iconoclast "(a breaker of idols .)

 

[Rudyard]

Look at the thread where an Indian matchlock barrel was sawn in half. The two culprits said it was very hard to do!

Culprit fitting word ! My thoughts on that barrel is it was never fine bored
Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

I read an article many years ago when they were discussing steel for M/L tubes and they glued a plug into a cardboard mailing tube and discovered it would sustain any "reasonable" black powder load they tried in it! So where's the problem with 12L14? Especially as some very respected barrel makers are still using it. Any idiot can make a barrel fail - short seating/ wrong type of powder/neglect - look in a mirror don't blame the steel used!

I don't look in mirrors. Too much bother getting all the bits of glass up so nobody gets cut .
Rudyard