1805-1838 Fur Trapper Era stuff

[skunktop]

So there are a few clothing items I am either making or would like assistance in acquiring.

First, I am portraying a persona of an early Longhunter-gone-west fur trapper. One of my rifles is a 16guage Northwest Trade gun with brass decorations. I suppose the regional perspective Im going for would be plains style.

Anyways, thats aside here are some of the clothing items I am looking for acquire in addition to what I have (Mostly rev war stuff with some drop front breeches.)

I am looking for a good pattern for high top moccasins worn by plains indians.

Also, I am looking to make a metis coat. I am about 5ft 8in, size 32 coat. Im looking to get a Frock coat pattern for the size, but I would like to know how many hides I should obtain beforehand. I understand there are set amounts of "Square Feet" that are needed, if I were to obtain 9-10 square foot hides, how many would I need to get?

I don't want to buy a certain "Square feet worth" of hides, I would rather someone recommend certain number of hides themselves. Hides are expensive, and I cant just go and overbuy a bunch of hides. I also have very little time on my own to tan hides, so thats not an option either.

Also, I am looking for a good Voyager Sash. I want one that is 5-6 inches in width. I have one that is 2-3 inches, but I need something wider.

Any recommendations to find the said items at the best price/quality?

 

[Black Hand]

First, I am portraying a persona of an early Longhunter-gone-west fur trapper.

Not in 1805-1835. The longhunter era was about 1760-1780, so the person you claim to portray does not/did not exist. Stick with trapper and you'll be better-off. Also, much happened in the 30 year period, so pick a more specific time-frame.

One of my rifles is a 16guage Northwest Trade gun with brass decorations. I suppose the regional perspective Im going for would be plains style.

A trapper most likely would not have had a brass-tack decorated gun. Also tradeguns were primarily smoothbores.

I am looking for a good pattern for high top moccasins worn by plains indians.

High-top moccasins were primarily worn by women.

Also, I am looking for a good Voyager Sash. I want one that is 5-6 inches in width. I have one that is 2-3 inches, but I need something wider.

Are you a Voyageur (Canada & Great lakes region) or a western Trapper?

My recommendation would be to save a considerable amount of money by reading a good deal more before buying anything. Ask more questions here, and you will get lots of help.

 

[skunktop]

Thanks for the conjecture. Most of the clothing I have is Rev War long hunter style. The clothing is all consistent with AJ Miller drawings. Many of the people who went west were long hunter type men looking for the next adventure.

1805-1838 is a specific enough time period for clothing acquisitions. I think Ill stick with it.

Anyways, the smoothbore I have is all I have, as I have no Rev War longrifle any longer. The gun is authentic to the era, perhaps not the persona, but that is not important until I can acquire something more persona specific. The gun is good to go.

The sash was worn by native americans, french voyageurs, and early trappers all throughout the years, and were a common trade item.

Im looking to find. Please only post where I can find such items, please.

 

[Black Hand]

If you aren't open to suggestions, then why did you post questions?

As to the clothing, there are enormous differences between Rev war clothing and the clothing illustrated by AJ Miller.

Please carry on, as I have no additional time to waste on this. You've already made up your mind and aren't open to anything that intrudes on your pre-suppositions.

 

[Black Hand]

Additionally, AJ Miller didn't go west until 1837.

 

[skunktop]

Im sorry if that came off rude, but your post lacked information on what my acquisitions were.

My rev war clothes are long hunter/militia clothes, with the exception of drop front pants. The clothes will work until I can make buckskins.

I understand everything may not be 100%, but I don't have $3000 to get a new gun and new clothes, so I am slowly trying to make and acquire what I can. Rather than telling me what I have WONT work, help me to acquire what WILL work.

Thats what Im asking, not anything else. I listed three things Im trying to find, and you helped me find none. I would be more open to your post if you had posted something helpful, but you didn't. Sorry if I came off rude, but your post was hardly helpful or on topic.

And 1837 was before 1838, so...?

 

[Black Hand]

I apologise for the short reply.

The pants and shirt would work, as the style remained (generally & relatively) constant. Coats, vests and jackets changed in style considerably.

Keep in mind that cloth (linen, wool and cotton) clothing was very common, so there is little need to run out and get yourself kitted from stem to stern with buckskins. Buckskin pantaloons or leggins are appropriate.

A trade gun does work, but as I said it is less likely that a trapper would have one decorated with tacks (more of a native thing). That isn't to say that there weren't any.

Moccasins would were usually low, and for men may have extended about a hand-span above the ankle (generalization). The high-top moccasins (knee-high) were womens moccasins. Don't discount shoes or boots. For moccasins, side-seam or some sort of pucker-vamp would be common.

For a coat, I would take 3-4 medium-sized hides, especially if tailored in the style of the day.

The general use of Voyageur sashes by Fur-trade persons appears to be a re-enactorism. A belt would be appropriate.

That said, the 1805-1838 period is still very broad. While I agree that a few people involved in the "Longhuntering" may have gone west, they would have been older. Figuring an average age of 20 when they started "longhunting", they would have been in their 40s in 1805 if they started in 1780) and in their 60s if they started in 1760.

 

[skunktop]

The trade gun is mainly a "Get by" firearm. The only other muzzleloader I have is a Traditions style kentucky .45, very plain and is a percussion. It will work, but it was given to my father when he was a kid, and I am iffy about taking it out too terribly often. From what I have read, the big bore pennsylvania/kentucky rifles were most popular, and great plains/hawkens were expensive and not made their way in great numbers west. Any idea what long rifle kit would be most popular? I have been looking at LeHigh valley kits mostly.

The moccasins I can get around with some half leggings, I found a good kit from Crazy Crow, the main business in something high top is to keep the pebbles out of my feet.

Any idea where the best place to obtain leather already tanned would be?

 

[Black Hand]

Let me re-state - the trade gun is OK. The tack issue is cosmetic. Others are more suited to give you suggestions about the proper rifle(s).

With the moccasin styles I listed, the flaps tie around the ankles so no debris can get in (no pebbles).

Multiple vendors sell leather of which Crazy-crow is one. Brain-tan, while available for purchase, is very expensive. As I tan my own, I can't give you any suppliers though many mention Matt Richards and others.

Personally, I would avoid kits of any sort like the plague as they are rarely (read never) of the proper construction/design. One must also be very careful about patterns, as few are properly designed for period clothing (I make my own patterns from original patterns adjusted to my measurements).

 

[crockett]

How focused are you are the longhunter? If you have a 16 gauge trade gun that already has tacks- you really can't take them out; and, if you are interested in a Metis coat - then why not just think about a metis persona. The French were the earliest to the Great Lakes and all points West. They married native women. Their childen grew up exposed to both worlds and they became master woodsmen and were highly admired by almost all mountain men. Antoine Clement was a friend of William Drummond Stewart and there are some Miller painting of him. That 1837 Miller sketch book- there are more paintings than that book shows- search the net.
Sacagawea's husband Toussaint Charbonneau was another French Canadian and their child Jean Baptiste Charbonneasu was very famous, he went to Europe and was educated, he is depicted in various artwork, he was involved in some of the famous mountain man battles and ended up running a trading post on the Platte.
If the French aspect isn't appealing then think about a Delaware. This Eastern tribe was relocated in Missouri and some ended up being mountain men- some of the best.

 

[Rod Lassey]

Not to mention that I'm convinced that the Métis made up the majority of western trappers.

There were former longhunters that went west, read up on Edward Robinson, who went west with Manuel Lisa, guided the Astorians, and eventually lost his life in the Snake river area during the winter of 1813-14. He was in his later 60s at the time, & described as a veteran of the dark and bloody ground of Kentucky.

That said, the late 1700s-early 1800s saw very distict changes in fashion. The waistcoat of the early 1800s was completely different that those of the past century, and coat styles changed tremendously, as well.

There is some evidence of sash use by non-Métis during the fur trade, but a belt would be more common.

Moccs that would work well for you would be the northern Plains sideseam style, with wrap around ankle wraps.

This site has a good article and pattern for these:
http://womenofthefurtrade.com/page11.html

Some more information on clothing can be found here:
http://www.manuellisaparty.com/articles.htm

Rod

 

[tenngun]

Black hand and Rod are right on on the clothing. We can rmember Boone made his way in to the rockies when he was in his 70s,He was a little out of the ordinary.If you go with a young man who grew up in the Great lakes area that went west you can have a lot of French styled clothing. You can also make use of your trade gun if you think English man who left the HBC to come south. Although you may have had some Indian or french styles you would still have dressed English.
The old mountian man sketch book by wilson and hanson has a lot of good coats.But dont get narrowd in to buckskin as cloth was very popular and preffered in most settings.
As an American your dress would tend to be common laboroer. A smoothy would have been a back up gun As americans "reached for the rifle".
Go slow.

 

[crockett]

RodL- is there an "inner Metis" in some of us wanting to escape. Think about it. Some folks like the rakish point on a scalper as compared to a bulbous butcher knife, some folks like tacks in their rifles, etc, etc. Why not admit it? A Metis was a top mountain man.

 

[skunktop]

I know this isn't clothing related but you said earlier a smoothbore would be a "backup gun". Is it common then for trappers and mountain men to have had two rifles? I have read many accounts where they had 1-2 pistols, but 1-2 rifles? I would think just 1 is all they could afford/would want to carry

 

[tenngun]

We can think of the back up gun as in the brigades baggage, not ment as a MM carring two or more long guns. Spare guns show up in the records as do times when the brigade had more men then guns.

 

[Rod Lassey]

I should have noticed that you asked where to find the clothing you're looking for. I know I've pointed them out before on other threads, but Mark & Charlotte Morain of Kootenai River Traders (Libby, Montana), phone 1-406-293-8239, make some very nice period correct clothing.

As for a sash, Irene rodgers makes nice, affordable finger-woven sashes. The last phone number I have for her is (218) 472 - 3023. I hope it's still good.


Rod

 

[skunktop]

Thanks guys. So I think with this I am going for a metis/voyageur persona. What would a proper headgear be?

 

[Woodyrock]

The sash was the eras voyageurs equivalent of today's ergonomic weight thingy one sees workers wearing....just think about packing several bundles weighing 90 pounds each over a portage. No voyageur would carry only one. Whilst they did look good, they were mainly for function, not decoration.
Woody

 

[Rod Lassey]

Thanks guys. So I think with this I am going for a metis/voyageur persona. What would a proper headgear be?

The tuque, generally in red, was very common. Often, they consisted of a longish, football shaped tube, tapering closed at both ends, and one end stuffed into another to double the thickness.

One also sees top hats, decorated with feathers for fancy dress, and the wheel or clerk's type hat was also quite common.

http://www.northwestjournal.ca/

http://www.navoyageur.org/

http://frenchinwisconsin.com/

Hope this helps.

Rod

 

[coloradoclyde]

would a french voyager or metis have worn a hat with a brim other than a top hat? if so.. what?