1830's knife

[Blackfinger]

Back in the 1980's a friend of mine bought a used car and found this old knife in the trunk. He had no use for it so he gave it to me. For years I couldn't find any info on the maker but I finally posted it on Bernard Levine's forum and got some answers. It was made by John Baker and Sons. Apparently they made knives in England for only a few years in the 1830's. They soon switched to manufacturing tools and where successful at that well into the 20th century. Not long after I posted it I got an e-mail from a woman who said she was a descendant for John baker. She said she was aware that the company got it's start making knives but neither she nor anyone in her family have ever been able to locate an original knife.
It's been re-handled at some point in it's life and possibly re-shaped. Still a cool find.

 

[RickD]

Kind of makes you wonder where its been all this time

 

[deseeb2001]

One of those "if it could talk" type deals! Not a bad find, at all.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Neither the handle nor guard look original to the piece. Early 1960s, IMHO. The blade looks like was originally a double edge dagger . It does not appear to have been shortened much over is life, however, considering the relative position ot the "flat" of the blade to the point. The picture is not clear enough to get the maker's name from it, but its nice to know that you found even that!

The bottom edge, per the picture, appears to have been used a lot more than the top edge. Is the top edge even sharpened?

What we can only wonder is what stories that knife could tell us about if it could only speak.

Thanks for posting the picture and history. :hatsoff:

 

[LaBonte]

The blade looks like was originally a double edge dagger

Not based on the plunge line which shows it to be a single edge blade. Shape wise it may have been what is known as a spear point blade - the back in this case is what is known as a false edge i.e. ground to shape but I'd bet left unsharpened. Whether the false edge is original to the blade or not is hard to tell since my "feeling" is the blade has been shortened and re-shaped somewhat.

I agree that the handle is a 20th Century replacement and the guard possibly - is the guard brass or German silver? The whole image is a bit yellow so........
FWIW - The English seldom used brass so if it's brass it's probably been replaced.

All in all still a nice piece of history..

 

[LRB]

Chuck, I have not seen any posts from you in awhile. I wuz starting to think there wuz maybe a problem. Good to see you back. Just my thinking, but it would seem that the blade, though probably an original, has been shortened, and the grip reminds me of many I've seen that were made in military, especially navy, machine shops, during the 40's, and 50's. I don't know, just guessing, but an interesting blade.

 

[Blackfinger]

The back edge of the blade is quite flat and thick. I can assure you it's never been sharpened. The knife has definitely been heavily re-worked over the years. Levine's assessment was based on the markings. Apparently these markings are listed as belonging to cutler John Baker of Sheffield for a brief period in the 1830's.
Here are a couple of pics.

 

[Blackfinger]

Just my thinking, but it would seem that the blade, though probably an original, has been shortened, and the grip reminds me of many I've seen that were made in military, especially navy, machine shops, during the 40's, and 50's.

Levine had the exact same comments.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The name stamp removes any doubt, for sure. I have seen handles on knives done from WWII, through the early years in Vietnam, in the 60s. I can't tell what the dark material that makes up the bands in the grip, but they are often either leather, or synthetic materials such as Lexan today. The metal in the handle is obviously brass, and I am sure makes the knife a bit heavier than it was in its original form. A lot of "spear point" or "Dagger blade" knives made in the 1850s had no guard or hilt, and a coffin shaped handle was very common. MANY WERE SOLD here in America, to the gold miners heading across the continent to California.

Its sad that the family has no known original knife made by the ancestors. One can only hope that there are others out there, that just have not be publicized. :thumbsup:

 

[LaBonte]

Chuck, I have not seen any posts from you in awhile. I wuz starting to think there wuz maybe a problem.

Howdy Wick -
Too much work (about 18 months back ordered) plus too little time (and money :cursing: ) = not much time to "play"

I am thinking of doing a WIP thread on a pipe hawk that's on the bench so keep a weather eye out.......

 

[fatboy]

Labonte , the wip thread on the pipe hawk would be great

 

[pichou]

Apparently these markings are listed as belonging to cutler John Baker of Sheffield for a brief period in the 1830's.
Here are a couple of pics.

http://www.cutlers-hallamshire.org.uk/html/contact-us/

They still have all of the marks records in Sheffield.
Shoot 'em a email and the pics. Joan Unwin, the Cutler's Company Archivist will tell you if they have a record of the name and mark.