1851 Navy Gregorelli and Uberti

[gun_collector]

There is no Roman numerals on this 1851. It is in the 2,000 serial range and has GU mark. There is no warning about black powder. What year would his have been made? Pre 60s?

 

[Zonie]

The Italian proof marks should have a rectangular or square box with a date code in it.
These codes go back to 1954, starting with Roman numeral, "X" (ten) and increasing by one each year so, 1955 = XI, 1956 = XII. Prior to 1954 the numbers in the square were regular numbers (Arabic numerals) showing the year.

Uberti's first production gun was a Colt 1851 in 1959 so the date code would have been "XV".

Warnings about using black powder didn't come along until in the mid '80's so there are tens of thousands of black powder guns that don't carry that warning.

Here's a link to our forums post about Italian date codes.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/modern-replica-dating-by-proof-marks.49482/

 

[gun_collector]

this 1851 has no proof marks

 

[sourdough]

I have to disagree with Zonie just a bit.

A few photos would be in order: left and right side view of the frame and barrel lug. GU was Gregorelli & Uberti who made 1851 Navies for Navy Arms from ~1959-1962 before Aldo Uberti split off from Gregorelli in 1963: Gregorelli had the manufacturing license and Uberti had the factory. Aldo Uberti obtained his manufacturing license in 1963 and that is where we are today. In those days the GU guns most likely had no proof marks or date codes as they were most likely produced for Val Forgett's Navy Arms Company shipped to Val in the US and marked Navy Arms.

Don't take my word for it: Civil War Guns by William B. Edwards (1962) pp 421-427 explains it.

There is also this courtesy of Dennis Russel:







Regards,

Jim

 

[gun_collector]

Nit mine but it is just like this one in the link below. Even has the same box. the one I have is in the 2,000 serial range. Any way to know what year?

https://www.riverjunction.com/z-Sol...tion-Navy-Arms-1851-Navy-Revolver_p_2164.html

 

[muzzelloader69]

does anybody no what these early gregorelly/uberti guns are worth

 

[CaptainVane]

I have to disagree with Zonie just a bit.

A few photos would be in order: left and right side view of the frame and barrel lug. GU was Gregorelli & Uberti who made 1851 Navies for Navy Arms from ~1959-1962 before Aldo Uberti split off from Gregorelli in 1963: Gregorelli had the manufacturing license and Uberti had the factory. Aldo Uberti obtained his manufacturing license in 1963 and that is where we are today. In those days the GU guns most likely had no proof marks or date codes as they were most likely produced for Val Forgett's Navy Arms Company shipped to Val in the US and marked Navy Arms.

Don't take my word for it: Civil War Guns by William B. Edwards (1962) pp 421-427 explains it.

There is also this courtesy of Dennis Russel:







Regards,

Jim

 

[Hawk54]

does anybody no what these early gregorelly/uberti guns are worth

They are worth more than the Uberti marked ones made after 1962. The early ones are collectable and seem to run around $50 to $100 more than a later ones depending on condition. A minty one or very early serial number would bring more from a collector.

 

[muzzelloader69]

i was just wondering, i have one of the first ones made , low one diget serial number gun, in the original box unfired , unturned, had it for about 30 years .

 

[Long Johns Wolf]

My G&U Navy #5239 has the year code XVIII for 1962.
Long Johns Wolf

 

[Hawk54]

The early Navy Arms 1851 style had no proof marks or date codes up through at least the 2,100 serial number range. I have a #9XX and 2,1XX Navy Arms and they do not have a date code or proofs. I have serial #3,5XX and it has a date code of XVI which is 1960 and it has proof marks. So that would indicate that the first year 1959 and possibly early 1960 pistols had no date codes or proofs.

 

[Hawk54]

Nit mine but it is just like this one in the link below. Even has the same box. the one I have is in the 2,000 serial range. Any way to know what year?

https://www.riverjunction.com/z-Sol...tion-Navy-Arms-1851-Navy-Revolver_p_2164.html

1959 or early 1960.

 

[muzzelloader69]

heres some pictures

 

[springfield art]

I have to disagree with Zonie just a bit.

A few photos would be in order: left and right side view of the frame and barrel lug. GU was Gregorelli & Uberti who made 1851 Navies for Navy Arms from ~1959-1962 before Aldo Uberti split off from Gregorelli in 1963: Gregorelli had the manufacturing license and Uberti had the factory. Aldo Uberti obtained his manufacturing license in 1963 and that is where we are today. In those days the GU guns most likely had no proof marks or date codes as they were most likely produced for Val Forgett's Navy Arms Company shipped to Val in the US and marked Navy Arms.

Don't take my word for it: Civil War Guns by William B. Edwards (1962) pp 421-427 explains it.

There is also this courtesy of Dennis Russel:







Regards,

Jim

Super interesting! The birth of the modern percussion revolver era.

 

[springfield art]

My Zouave is marked Navy Arms; recall that name from the 'early days' and still think fondly of it!

 

[Slvrsrfng]

I just picked up a Gregorelli and Uberti 1861 Police (I believe its a police or pocket). The date stamp says it was made in 1962, but the cylinder has a 79 stamped on the back. Could someone explain what that means? I'm thinking the cylinder was maybe replaced. Thank you.

 

[Long Johns Wolf]

The 79 on the breech side of the cylinder might be the last digits of the serial number.
Could you post a pic of your pistol, please?
Because I like to get an idea if and when GU got into making the 1862 Police and the 1849 Pocket.
Thanks.
Long Johns Wolf

 

[springfield art]

I just picked up a Gregorelli and Uberti 1861 Police (I believe its a police or pocket). The date stamp says it was made in 1962, but the cylinder has a 79 stamped on the back. Could someone explain what that means? I'm thinking the cylinder was maybe replaced. Thank you.

Never heard of the Gregorelli name! Guess it's because of the early 1962 date! Were they an early partner of Uberti?

 

[Hawk54]

Never heard of the Gregorelli name! Guess it's because of the early 1962 date! Were they an early partner of Uberti?

Gregorelli and Uberti combined to make the first black powder reproduction revolvers for Navy Arms in 1959. Gregorelli had the firearms license to manufacture firearms in Italy. Uberti got their license to manufacture firearms and in 1964 they split and Uberti went solo. After that you will see Navy Arms revolvers with just the Uberti makers mark.

 

[Slvrsrfng]

The 79 on the breech side of the cylinder might be the last digits of the serial number.
Could you post a pic of your pistol, please?
Because I like to get an idea if and when GU got into making the 1862 Police and the 1849 Pocket.
Thanks.
Long Johns Wolf

79 does not match the serial at all. BUT, I took it apart and gave it a great cleaning yesterday. The previous owner must not have cleaned it in YEARS! During my cleaning, I notice "79" stamped on almost every major component. So I'm guessing the cylinder is the original which is great news! Here are some pics.