1858 New Army Revolver

[Leatherbark]

The R.E.A.L 200 grain 45 slug loads fairly easy in my R.O.A. I use a 7.62 M-43 case loaded with about 30 grains of 3f for a measure and use SPG on the REALs. Shoots a nice 2 inch round group at 25 yards if I aim carefully. They do not seat and leave a ring of lead, but they haven't been migrating forward any. The REALs fall into the chambers about 1/2 half way aligning themselves pretty good. So far I am satisfied with the REALs although I don't know what I would shoot with them. By the way this load chronographed about 830fps with the 200 grain REAL.

Bob

 

[markmahaney]

Here in Va. a minimum of 350 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy is required for hunting deer and bear with a handgun or blackpowder revolver. If I were to try this method I believe the only BP revolver I would use would be a Ruger.

 

[rodwha]

You should be able to achieve that figure or surpass it using 3F Swiss, Olde E, or Triple 7 powder in any of the steel framed pistols.

 

[cschibi]

Brother,

I can't disagree with your rationale and morale position on this topic... :wink:

That being said, it does provide great fodder for intellectual / technical discussions as well as the purposeful elaboration on the subject!

I am seriously considering my options with similar hunting scenarios...

This is a great forum topic to discover other opinions and perspectives that will likely influence my decisions regarding.

Respectively,

 

[rodwha]

I've researched this quite a bit, and found that it's not difficult to duplicate or even surpass the 45 Colt load with a .44 cal cap n ball. Not many would claim the 45 Colt insufficient at taking game animals.

 

[Carl Fowler III]

Hey Jack... you do know guns were made for killing...right? :slap:

 

[swathdiver]

Our cap and ball guns when loaded with Kaido bullets and SWISS powder are in .41 magnum territory, plenty of power to drop an elk let alone a white tail out to 100 yards. Many folks keep thinking of these things in terms of the old low powered powders and round nose conicals and not the modern powders which replicate that of the 1860s and modern Keith inspired bullets.

A soft lead round ball creates a devastating wound channel. A soft lead, flat nosed Kaido conical will punch two big full caliber holes in game.

Then that same gun can be loaded down for a five year old to shoot! Gotta love the versatile single action cap and ball revolver!

 

[FishDFly]

I've researched this quite a bit, and found that it's not difficult to duplicate or even surpass the 45 Colt load with a .44 cal cap n ball. Not many would claim the 45 Colt insufficient at taking game animals.

Details and documentation to follow from verifiable sources along with proper footnotes to substantiate will be coming soon will they not?

Cannot wait to read them.

 

[dickydalton]

Yesterday my Pietta 1860 averaged 710 FPS with 30 grains of Goex 3F, Gatefoe lubed wad and 454 round ball. Fun and pleasant load. I'll not be taking it hunting this fall.

 

[M. De Land]

Yeah, since I can make my .44 mag loads pale by comparison in my.45 Colt Bisley gun and do it with 3 to 5 thousand pounds less pressure.
The standard .45 Colt load was a 250 grain round nose bullet and about 35-40 grains of black if I remember correctly for about 900 fps.
A round ball weighs about 139 grains and the flat points for Rugers usually go about 255 grains I think but I doubt they are going 900 fps.
I still need to try my .45 ACP bullets at 200 grains with the heeled base and flat point. I bet they just might work quite well. Mike D.

 

[rodwha]

I have read many accounts of guys choreographing their loads. The guys who used Triple 7, Swiss, and Olde Eynsford had very high velocities compared to those who used Pyrodex, Goex, and many of the other BP's available.

There's a 6 part series by Mike Beliveau shooting ROA's with Goex and Triple 7 with RB's, Lee conicals, and Kaido's conicals.

Here's part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WNYGs2_UZw

You'll see that his testing with a reduced load of 25 grns of 3F Triple 7 with a 255 grn conical produced 920 fps with 479 ft/lbs of energy.

And there are several other people out there who have also found high velocities. There are many with pics and stories of hunting deer and hogs with cap n ball pistols.

I was given authorization to share the work of the fellow who states that the powders used around the CW in revolvers had quite similar power to Swiss and Olde E. Being that they are so long it won't allow me to copy and paste it all. If you'd like to see this yourself send me a PM and I'll email it to you.

 

[rodwha]

Weren't they using 2F BP in the old 45 Colt loads?

 

[nkbj]

Still wants me a real gun, a companion piece percussion revolver that shoots .53 round ball.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I have read many accounts of guys choreographing their loads.

Must be quite a sight to see shooters in tutu's and ballet slippers, no?

I'd imagine that the William Tell Overture as musical accompaniment would be appropriate.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Weren't they using 2F BP in the old 45 Colt loads?

Technically, yes. Powder was a little different before the days of heavier glazing, etc.
Might also add that the full load in a M.1860, and other percussion revolvers, was heavily tested a few years back and the results meticulously compared to police shoot out records using more accurate, modern methods. The M.1860 load with round ball gave "one-shot kills" comparable to .45 Colt and .44 Special cartridge guns. Not too shabby.

 

[M. De Land]

I don't know what the granulation was for original Colt .45 loads. Mike D.

 

[rodwha]

Yea, most don't know the truth about how the Civil War played out! We all just figure it's something like it is today when in fact they had many late nights practicing their routines! And then all of the seamstresses who were on hand to repair the tutus when they tore! What a sight it was!

Dadgum auto correct! :haha:

Anyone interested in the files I copied?

 

[rodwha]

I'd be quite happy with a revolver that shoots a .490" RB to go with my rifle, but the $1200 tag keeps me from doing so! Sure wish that kind of money didn't mean much to me...

 

[swathdiver]

I've researched this quite a bit, and found that it's not difficult to duplicate or even surpass the 45 Colt load with a .44 cal cap n ball. Not many would claim the 45 Colt insufficient at taking game animals.

Details and documentation to follow from verifiable sources along with proper footnotes to substantiate will be coming soon will they not?

Cannot wait to read them.

Richard, hop on over to the yahoo percussion revolver group and you'll find what you're looking for.

 

[rodwha]

That is where I got the files I've offered to share. But there are many forums that have had people testing across chronographs and on game animals. There are several.

But there are also many who state that a .44 cal cap n ball pistol with a ball is only on par with a 38 Spl. You'll notice they've likely used standard Goex or Pyrodex powder.

From a full size ROA a Lee conical gave Mike Beliveau:
805 fps and 324 ft/lbs using 35 grns of 3F Goex (much better than a 38 Spl, and with a larger hole).
968 fps and 469 ft/lbs using 30 grns of 3F Triple 7. About on par with a modern 45 Colt loading, and that's with a reduced load.