1860 question

[fredrader]

You may be rite about pinching the caps,Next time I shoot it I will try not pinching them and see what happens..All the nipples didn't pop off but just the ones on either side of the hammer..The others were still on nice and tight..
I used the proper size wonder wad both times I loaded it..The first 6 shots went off fine even with the pinched caps but the 1st shot out of the next 6 well you know the rest of the story :redface: ..

 

[Jimbo453]

I think the .028 gap is to large and have read that 6 to 8 thousands is the best if possable and the spring movment you feel is from the hand spring I think someone may have the wrong cly in this revolver I have 7 C B revolvers and none feel that way ,as for the chain fire I would replace the nipples if the caps dont fit right if this happened one time chances it will happen again and maybe next time you wont be so lucky
(only my 2 cents worth )

 

[madcratebuilder]

The .028 barrel gap is excessive. Ideally you would have .008, but it's still shootable. You well have a little more smoke and flame out the sides and loose some velocity.

It's my belief that most chain fires are from improperly fitting caps. Sam Colt wrote about it and Manhattan has patents about it.

 

[fredrader]

I didn't exactly tell the whole story before..
I bought the 1860 and a Uberti Walker the same day for $350..The walker is in new in box and the 1860 was kinda rough..The 1860 looked like someone let there kids play cowboys and indians with it and snapped it so many times that the hammer had a deep round dent where it had been hitting the nipples hundreds and hundreds of times with no caps on them..So....I cleaned her up and capped all 6 original nipples (Which were not beat up but looked kinda short)and went out back and tried it with no load and half the time it would bust the cap and some times it would take a couple tries and some I had to hold back on the cylinder to get the cap to pop..So I had 6 new nipples so I installed them and the same thing happened when I capped her up and tried it..That is when I noticed the dent in the hammer..(It gets better :rotf: )..I desided it needed a new hammer and since I only had $100 in the gun I got the bright idea to take it out into the garage and use my mig welder to fill in the dent in the hammer..SO I did,I built it up and ground it back flat just like it was supposed to be..I even used my dremmel and cut a slot in it like it came so it can be carried with the hammer resting between the caps..I then proceeded to cap her up and try it again and it busted 6 out of 6 caps :thumbsup: That is when I loaded her up and shot it 6 times without a hickup and since it was already dirty why not load her up again and try it another 6..That is when it chain fired on the 1st shot on my 2nd loading firing 3 chambers..Then I just went ahead and shot the 3 remaining loaded cylinders without a hitch...Now like Paul Harvey said That is the rest of the story... :wink:

Oh,The #10 caps fit both the old nipples and the new nipples nice and tihht but I pinched them to try and make them as tight as possible but I won't pinch them next time :redface:

 

[Jimbo453]

Thanks for the rest of the story Ill move down a bench or two next time I see you at the range
LOL LOL LOL LOL
shoot more
worry less

 

[fredrader]

Thanks for the rest of the story Ill move down a bench or two next time I see you at the range
LOL LOL LOL LOL
shoot more
worry less

I hear ya :wink:

 

[fredrader]

Ok,I think I figured out why it has such a gap between the cyl and brl..Looks like the recoil shield is beat pretty bad..The one on the left is the 1860 and the one on the right is a new 1851..
Click on the thumbnail and again on the larger pic for the largest view..

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Fred,

I'd stop shooting the '60 Army on the left! It looks like someone played around with a duplex load of black & smokeless combined (VERY DANGEROUS!) to try to make some sort of magnum out of the revolver! That close-up photo really tells the story...I can see impressions of the back of the cylinder pressed into the steel of the revolver. This is very over-stressed metal and is now to be considered unsafe to shoot UNLESS a qualified gun smith says different!IMHO in this condition, I would make this gun a wall hanger, or let some new kids play with it cause it's already cra$!

You got the Walker new in the box, and paid the going rate for the new gun. The '60 Army was a "throw-in" anyway, so just don't worry about it too much! Enjoy the Walker: 52 grains of 3Fg Goex, a wonder-wad, and a .454 Hornady ball and aim 6.5 inches low at 25 yards and you're in the 10-X ring! Enjoy!

Please be careful with that '60 Army!

Dave

 

[Zonie]

Actually, that is a GREAT photo showing what happens with brass framed guns when they are fired with heavy loads.

We often tell newcomers to the world of Cap & Ball pistols that a brass framed gun will "shoot loose" if heavy powder loads are used.

Usually we get some folks who say they've been shooting max loads in their brass framed guns for years and there is nothing loose on their gun .
To them I say, look at the pictures above and notice the grooves where the ratchet on the cylinder has been pounding the cylinder stop ring on the frame.

Anyway, I don't consider this condition to make the gun unsafe to shoot but it would make a better wall hanger or paperweight than it does a good pistol.
It can also serve as a parts gun because most if not all of the parts are interchangable with the parts in other similar brass or steel framed Colts.

 

[Jimbo453]

This would be a good revolver to DEFARB it already looks old and worn out
LOL

 

[fredrader]

Thanks guy's,I just cleaned it up and put it up on the wall with the rest of em..

Zonie,I figured the photo would be helpfull since it is hard to explain to someone what excessive loads will do to a brass frame..

Dave,I will try your load in the walker..I tried 20g and then 30g and it shot like a shotgun..

Thanks again,Fred

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Zonie,

You know better than I what is shootable. I was just "blown-away by the damage". Those impressions look hammered into that frame. Those pix Fred took should be captured somehow and saved into archives in something like the Charts & Graphs section to illustrate the damage done making a brass-framed gun into a magnum!

Dave

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Brass wasn't used for the Walkers, so go ahead and give her 50 grains, AND HOLD ON FOR THE RIDE! :rotf:

Have fun!

Dave

 

[fredrader]

I'll give it a try for sure..You guys can have the pics and do anything you want with em..If you want a larger one just let me know and I can send one..

 

[cgn71]

I do know alot of parts even from different makers on different models will interchange, some with no work some with just a little work. When I was reenacting I portrayed a cavalry trooper and loved to carry alot of revolvers and I've seen many guys that never cared anything about live firing make all kinds of Tuco specials out of worn out or broke down revolvers but since they'd only be firing blanks anyway it really didn't matter. bad thing was if they ever got sold or traded and ended up in a shooters hand.

Chad

 

[fredrader]

When it warms up a little I am going to take it back out and try it a few more times anyway,I just won't use a sand bag rest in case it does it again.I only use 20g in it and Wonder Wad...I couldn't even tell it happened but my buddy standing behind me said it had a lot more smoke than the first string did..
I won't pinch the caps next time and see what happens..If it does it again I will try greasing the end of the cyl and try it some more..I would really like to figure out if spark did it from the front or from the back..It probably won't do it again since I want it to do it :wink:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

It could well be that with so much cylinder end play the cylinder is actully driving the caps against the recoil shield. I saw one brass framed .44 which chain fired all chambers at once for unknown reasons and the imprint of the nipples was clearly driven into the recoil shield.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Now that would be a real handful! All 6 going-off at once! WOW!

 

[fredrader]

I really couldn't tell any difference when 3 went off at once but I was shooting off a bench..

The cylinder slamming back against the recoil shield could have dislodged the nipples but it looks like it would have dislodged all 5 and not just the top 2 :hmm:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I've never experienced a chain-fire. And it's not something that I'm looking forward to mind ya! Good luck trying to figure yours out! You may be right though, and just make that sidearm a wallflower! :idunno:

Dave