1992 powder?

[necchi]

I'd want to see some documentation about black powder degrading.

Do you know who Bill Knight is? aka: The Mad Monk?
Here are some quotes from him on the American Long Rifle forum;
Discussion of a Black Powder Safe;

Storage in heat requires that the temperature of the powder not exceed 150 degrees F. No real danger of an explosion here. Just a problem where the powder will begin to go through chemical changes that cause it to grow increasingly weaker in the gun and to foul the gun badly.

To support this, from a topic titled Black Powder Storage;

Storage temperature should not exceed 150 F. If you heat black powder slowly, once the temperature of the powder reaches 180 F a small portion of the sulfur begins to go from the solid state to the gaseous state without going through the liquid phase. In the solid state the sulfur is relative inactive. But in the gaseous state the sulfur can become highly reactive and "attack" the potassium nitrate,,

While it is wonderful that you have "usable" powder that has gone through some unconventional storage circumstances.
Nobody including myself has said that powder becomes "un-usable".
This topic began with questions about performance of old/questionable powder vs new and powder of known proper storage.
If someone is seeking target accuracy as with a new rifles load development or a new shooter wanting peak and reliable performance from his equipment, having powder that has gone through questionable storage can very likely be one of the variables to be eliminated.
That 1/2 can of 3F Goex that was given me years ago was some really lame stuff, it did not act like 3F at all. It was very weak..
Unfortunately the Mad Monk's 9 chapter dissertation is no longer available with a quick link on-line, the server that held them is off-line or unpaid.
I do have the files saved on my hard drive and can share them with a free file sharing service on-line with an email link,, if someone wants them, send me a PM to trade email addy's and I'll sure send them when I have time.

 

[Bo T]

The little reading that I have done might indicate that the modern 'glazed' powder could have traded consistency (uniformity) for a little bit of oomph over the older powder.

 

[rodwha]

According to the research of one fellow interested in Civil War paper cartridges who dissected one of the Hazard’s Pistol Powder .44 cartridges and found it contained 4F sized granules. Testing it against the old pendulum data it was found to be as powerful as Swiss powder.

Those cartridges held 36 grns of powder with a 211 grn bullet.

 

[Gene L]

While it may not be true that BP doesn't degrade in every case, I think there's enough evidence to show it won't and will stand as a true statement. I read a long time ago, don't remember where, that BP actually increases in strength as it ages...I don't see how, but I remember reading it.

 

[necchi]

While it may not be true that BP doesn't degrade in every case, I think there's enough evidence to show it won't and will stand as a true statement

Wow, :shocked2: I give up. :idunno:
This might as well be a topic about CVA Mountain Rile USA made barrels, "Seasoning" the bore,, or WD40,,

 

[Rifleman1776]

While it may not be true that BP doesn't degrade in every case, I think there's enough evidence to show it won't and will stand as a true statement

Wow, :shocked2: I give up. :idunno:
This might as well be a topic about CVA Mountain Rile USA made barrels, "Seasoning" the bore,, or WD40,,

Or Delrin ram rods. :rotf:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Thanks Necchi. What he says makes sense on it's surface, but I took chemistry in summer school. A person could write a chemical equation that gold oxide combining with Helium creates lightning and I would know enough in that case to suspect it's veracity. Any thing else in chemistry leaves me in the dust.

 

[hanshi]

I have taken older suspect powder, put it on a piece of paper and put it in my bow wood drying box set at 90 degrees for a few days then put it back in the can.

I agree. Get it wet; just let it set. :thumbsup:

 

[Okie Hog]

i spent a career in US Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal. My first three years (59-62) were with the 864th EOD at Ft. Bragg, NC.

We answered many calls involving Civil War explosive ordnance. Most of the stuff was destroyed. We also inerted Civil War projectiles for museums, displays etc. We had a remote drilling operation that also played water on the drill bit. One time the water quit running and a Parrot round exploded while drilling.

My EOD comrades and i answered several calls where folks were maimed or killed while messing with Civil War explosive Ordnance. One guy who lived near Goldsboro was brazing a chain on a 10 inch cannon ball for use as a boat anchor. The ball exploded killing him.

i have seen Civil War powder charges for cannon that were well stored. The powder was as potent as new.

A friend was the last USMC casualty of the US Civil War. In the mid-late 1980s he was inerting a Parrot round when the small portion of powder remaining in the round exploded, maiming him. The Sgt. was medically retired from the USMC and is currently a SC law enforcement officer.

This article contains a lot of trash stuff. This guy was most likely drilling a Civil War cannon ball when it exploded:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/140-yr-old-cannonball-kills-civil-war-fan/

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Somewhere back up the page, it was asked why old powder may have been a bit more potent than new.
I'd suggest it was the quality of the charcoal. Only certain woods of good quality were used. In todays world, probably they are not as nit -pickin' as the old charcoal burners used to be.

Pukka.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Good post and good information, Okie. :thumbsup:

 

[Okie Hog]

You are very welcome.

There are big bucks in Civil War relics, especially explosive ordnance. A rusty old Napoleon cannon ball sells for $300-up.

Sam White; the Chester, VA guy, who was killed "deactivated" Civil War explosive ordnance in the driveway of his home. The guy knew absolutely nothing about the dangers of black powder loaded ordnance. He had no concern for the safety of his family and neighbors.

In 2006 there was another case involving Lawrence Christopher, who was critically injured when a piece of Civil War ordnance exploded. US Army EOD took about 60 pieces of Civil War ordnance from the collectors home after the train wreck.

Other Civil War collectors had fits of conniption after Army EOD destroyed the mans cannon balls: Go figure.

Lawrence Christopher, known as the Grandfather of Relics, was critically injured while attempting to defuse a Civil War cannonball back in July of 2006. After Christopher was injured other collectors were angered when a unit from the U.S. Department of Defense removed, then destroyed, more than 60 other Civil War shells from Christopher's home.

 

[Rifleman1776]

A rusty old Napoleon cannon ball sells for $300-up.

I have three cannon balls that I can only presume were CW. All came from the south (Arkansas and Louisiana). None have indications of where a charge might have been sealed in. I paid under $15.00 for each of them.

 

[Okie Hog]

Look at the prices wanted for some of this stuff:

http://www.bulletandshell.com/

In the late 1950s i purchased about one thousand rounds of black powder loaded .45/70 Gatling gun ammo from Bannerman. Every round fired at that time. By the early 1970s i was getting misfires. By the 1990s not one round fired. A few years ago i clawed the primers out of some rounds and installed new primers. Every round gave a very good crack.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Lived in Northern VA for 20 yrs 1978 to1998 and on Saturday mornings went yard sailing. Got a lot of bargains, including some old civil war guns, usually chopped up and sporterized. I will never forget seeing a shell about a ten inches long and five inches in diameter on a rickety card table. Normally on such old stuff, if never activated, there is clearly a hole where the fuse/igniter should be. This was still sealed up from what I could see (from about 15 ft away.) It only took me a couple seconds to realize, I probably should not mess with it. I went down the street and called the Fairfax county police, who said they had already been called and a car dispatched. Saw on the news that night that it was "live" and had been destroyed. Apparently the old lady having the yard sale tried to keep the bomb folks from taking it and she ended up with some charges.