2 groove British Sporter

[Gordoncourtney]

I shoot with the MLAGB at Bisley... I don't go to the monthly meets on Short Siberia ( a long way for a day trip), but shoot the MLAGB National Rifle Championship matches at Bisley at 200, 300, 500, 600, 900 and 1000 yards. With the Long Range Rifles Branch we also shoot at 1100 and 1200 yards. The Assocaition also has its own ranges at Wedgnock, Warwick with three ranges with covered firing points at 25, 50 and 100m. There's also regular DTL Shotgun shots at Sywell, besides several regional shotgun matches.

Membership renewals always welcomed! www.mlagb.com

David

Hello amazing I was in the association back in early 1970s. Hate to say it but bro Andy Courtney was national secretary till he was kicked out ha ha. I was shooting with him on NT polesdon lacy for years Havent seen Andy in years , such is life My problem is I have too many projects and sailing clubs on the go Shooting has been the love of my life. My pal is joining a ML club in Norfolk as they have their own 100 yard range. Me i am in Esher nice to meet you. Gordon Ps I get no replies from Surrey branch. Last time i went to the hut they had a a ML fair. 2012. The The hut is still empty regards. Gordon

 

[ResearchPress]

Hello amazing I was in the association back in early 1970s. Hate to say it but bro Andy Courtney was national secretary till he was kicked out ha ha. I was shooting with him on NT polesdon lacy for years Havent seen Andy in years , such is life My problem is I have too many projects and sailing clubs on the go Shooting has been the love of my life. My pal is joining a ML club in Norfolk as they have their own 100 yard range. Me i am in Esher nice to meet you. Gordon Ps I get no replies from Surrey branch. Last time i went to the hut they had a a ML fair. 2012. The The hut is still empty regards. Gordon

You seem to have responed within the 'quote' section above...

Just had to look up where Esher is! Not too far from Bisley then. Suprised no response from Surrey Branch, they're normally quite actve. Yes, NRA(UK) didn't renew the MLAGB lease when it came up for renewal - they wanted the hut for their own use. Whatever that was ground to a halt some time ago, and the hut has been empty since... apart from all the half finished work they had commenced.

David

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Interesting Dave, my shooting pal Roy " tacolneston " up in Norfolk emailed me only a few days ago of your website, and I have been enjoying reading your publications, amazed I could down load them. I was just watching Brown bless utube 34 mins dead interesting it puts my stronger Brown Bess Flint action between 1810-1820 of course the rest of the rifle I made is only 50 years old. .625 bore, Vickers steel barrel 8 groove 1 in 55" twist.......never fired it other than as blanks...I was thinking why do I want a 2 groove when I have this and not used it. It's just I have to have one , no Holts auction in March....and sound like the above Reilly is no longer at Holts.., not sold ! We email each other daily on [email protected] You know where I am where are you in UK......yes I am interested in long range shooting ML but would prefer a .338 or .5bmg but we know that won't happen as military ranges gradually close to the public.

 

[Britgun_sleuth]

One might get confusion between the thinking for the military Brunswick and the civilian later sporting rifles.

The idea for the Brunswick was to get both faster loading and a faster twist without too much fouling. The earlier slow Baker twist (1:120) let more rounds be rapid fired before fouling was a problem. Thus it was less accurate than it's German predecessors but a more usable military rifle. The Brunswick needed a belt to let a faster twist work in the same way. It is an unresolved puzzle why the initial 1840 Brunswicks were reported as easy to load and accurate to 300 yards yet by 1860 were reported as hard to load and inaccurate to 300 yards.

The thinking behind the civilian sporting 2 groove rifles was to allow a heavy charge. Such a charge with shallow multi groove rifling would strip the soft pure lead ball. By giving the ball a strong belt the charge could be much increased without the ball stripping thus giving a greater muzzle velocity. The hunter would likely be within 100-150 yards maximum so the ball could remain stable and supersonic to the target thus being both accurate and hard hitting. With a round ball energy cannot be increased by adding weight other than by increasing the bore (hence 4 bore elephant guns) so the belted ball let energy be increased by speeding up the ball by increasing the charge. Eventually it was overtaken by the cylindro-conical bullet that could add weight by increasing the length without increasing the bore. Ultimately the modern tiny bore and rapid velocity allowed by smokeless powder.

In both cases the belted ball was intended to be patched. With a close woven soft strong cloth or thin leather. Greased in each case. Wads were not part of the period load. Often the ball was wrapped in the patch, secured with a light thread stitch at the join pucker and then dipped or brushed with melted tallow. In the Brunswick case a black line was inked on the outside where the belt was (rolled on a wet pad?) to make loading faster.

Had the Brunswick been heavier loaded and the curious decay in loadability addressed, then it should have been an effective period rifle up to 300 yards. However, the load remained unchanged from the old Baker and allowed the issue of carbine paper cartridges from normal stores on the battlefield. Personally (drifting OT) I believe that the tallow on the ready patched lead balls reacted to swell them. Thus making long stored ball hard to load. However that will not be a problem for you as yours will be made and used fairly fresh. What the military needed and a hunter needed were not always the same. I could go on a long digression as to why Washington worked to replace rifles with muskets but I will spare you that digression.

Later uses of the 2 groove barrels moved to winged bullets of a cylindro-conical form, most famously by the Russians with the Kulikov winged bullet in their Brunswick copy and the 4 groove winged bullets of General Jacobs but the civilian counterpart were the winged bullets of Purdey. Google searching will give you more background on these.

Hi, I think the 'unresolved puzzle' may be down to fouling of the rifle with prolonged use. The entry on the Brunswick rifle on Wikipedia, which seems to be fairly well researched, is my source. Several references are given there.

 

[ResearchPress]

The entry on the Brunswick rifle on Wikipedia, which seems to be fairly well researched, is my source.

You may also find this on my web site if interest - The Brunswick Rifle

David