209 adaptor for sidelock

[Bill M.]

Has anyone tried the adaptor nipple to use 209 primers in a sidelock. I have a new TC Hawken. I ordered an adaptor to try, but it won't be here for a week or so. Anybody tried one?

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I use the adaptor for a small rifle primer in the .50 capper I have that I carry hunting in bad/rainy weather. it does very well but after about 3 shots the spent primer is hard to remove. the wiping patch generating pressure as I ram it down blows it out the first 2-3 shots. I don't see any need for it in dry weather the regular cap will do fine then.
Welcome to the Forum :hatsoff:

 

[jtmattison]

Wecome to the forum!

Unless you're shooting hard to ignite substitute powders the adapter isn't necessary at all. Good old #11 percussion caps have been lighting black powder, Pyrodex, and even Triple 7 for years.

209 primer ignition is for the evil modern muzzleloaders and they aren't even needed in them.

Just a sales gimmick.

HD

 

[Jumpshot]

Has anyone tried the adaptor nipple to use 209 primers in a sidelock.

Why would you want a 209 primer on a caplock? That's sort of like putting a Holley four barrel carburetor on a lawn mower. I suppose you could do it, but it won't cut the grass any better.

 

[MSW]

i agree with Dawg- it's just a sales gimmick... if it works for you, by all means go for it, but you don't really need it.

 

[tg]

The world of MLing is full of snakeoil salesmen and barrels of snake oil, always check around if someone tells you you need this or that or will need this or that, particularly when just getting started, have fun with the new gun and enjoy the journey, this is an interesting thread, all Hell would have broke loose if the question about a modern bullet was asked and the same response given, this place is something for sure, just not sure what.

 

[jtmattison]

Another point I forgot to mention is that using too much ignition power can blow accuracy. It has been shown that hot ignition with primers actually starts to move the load, powder and all, up the bore before the powder is actually ignited. This causes inconsistencies that can/will blow accuracy.

HD

 

[PreglerD]

There is no need for a 209 adapter because the subs are well ignited by #11 primers. If not take the #11 magnum primers. They are as strong as these 209 primers.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Can you return it? It isn't necessary and therefore not worth what you paid for it. Since cap and ball rifles light off virtually instantaneously with #11 caps, what possible improvement this toy offer?

These gimmicks come along every so often and the propaganda that the ad writers spew out makes them seem indispensible to any serious shooter. It's all a load of rubbish and the gimmmick is usually soon gone. Let's hope this one is soon forgotten.

 

[MikeC]

Plain old #11 caps work just fine in the rain. When I was hunting with nipple guns I would wipe a little "Chap Stik" around the nipple before I slid the cap on. Air/Water tight seal. Never failed me including the time I shot a big 8 pointer during a still hunt in the pouring rain.

 

[Zonie]

Bill M.
I agree with the others. A 209 primer isn't needed to fire a well loaded sidelock even with the synthetic powders.
Well, perhaps I should say with loose synthetic or real black powder.

There are pellets out there on the market and quite frankly even a 209 primer won't light them off in many sidelocks. They were made for those modern kinds of guns and they need the flash from the cap coming in from the rear. With many sidelocks, the flash comes in from the side and those that don't have a long path between the nipple and the breech.

As you bought the thing it probably won't hurt to play with it but I'm guessing you won't see any improvement in ignition speed.
Speaking of speed, some testing has been done that shows a sidelock using standard #11 primers will fire in just a few thousandths of a second from the time the hammer is released.
This being true, I doubt that even one of those fancy shotgun primers could improve on it enough to be noticed even by the electronic tools available.

 

[musketman]

Has anyone tried the adaptor nipple to use 209 primers in a sidelock. I have a new TC Hawken. I ordered an adaptor to try, but it won't be here for a week or so. Anybody tried one?

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't a 209 adaptor take longer to prime a rifle than by simply placing a #11 cap on the nipple?

If so, it seems like an unnecessary step.

 

[Bill M.]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I was worried about the 209 primer having too much power and upsetting the load or being unsafe. Have also heard that they foul badly.

One of my reasons for wanting to try it is I buy 209 primers by the several thousand for loading shotgun shells so I have some around. Be easier not to have to keep #11 too, but what the heck, along with the balls and patches and cleaning rods and stuff a tin of primers fits in okay.

Yeah, it looks like more trouble, since you have to screw the top off, put in the primer, and screw it back on. But after cleaning, etc. and dealing with the black powder that does not seem so bad. However if I drop the little cap I guess I better have a nipple wrench and nipple handy.

Snake oil? do I need to order some of that for lubeing patches? Nothing like a beginner with all those things you can buy on the internet now.

 

[CZMark]

I'm still trying to figure out a way to prime shotgun hulls with #11 percussion caps.

 

[jethro224]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. #11's will work fine. Plus they're traditional. :thumbsup:

Aren't the 209's quite a bit more expensive too? Then ya gotta figure the cost of the adapter part. I bet you could buy a pretty good stack of caps for that money.
Why pay extra to make things complicated when traditional is cheap and easy and works so well? :2

 

[Dave K]

A friend of mine had one back in the late 70's for his T/C Hawken. At the time he orfered it, he thought it was the answer. But it really was the answer to a problem that didn't need fixed. Our deer season then was in Jan. So to prime this bugger you had to manual unscrew this top which allowed you to then place a primer on. Of coure it was cold and your gloves were on, it was not easy to get the threads started to screw it on and you had to be so careful that you wouldn't drop this part, because you would never find it back in the snow. He would always carry the tools to remove it, so he could replace it with a regular nipple. It worked fine, but no better than good old #11 caps. He took it off after awhile because of repriming in the cold and it was a PIA to just plain practice with it. Did the gun fire any better? No. Did it take longer to reload. Yes. The advantage is the stimulus money that went to the people who makes it.You mileage may vary.

 

[paulvallandigham]

There are cappers sold that hold up to 100 percussion caps at a time, which you use to dispense the caps directly onto the nipple. I don't remember the last time I dropped a cap. Check the website for Track of the Wolf, or Dixie Gunworks. Tedd Cash makes two different kinds of cappers, and in addition, you can find inexpensive straight line- or " stick " cappers that will hold about 20 percussion caps. I started with one of these sticks, but it exposes the caps to lint, and the elements, and I soon replaced it with one of the Tedd Cash cappers.

The nipple should be cleaned between shots with a cleaning patch and some spit. Its free and works as well as any of the "solvents" sold. I used to move the hammer back to the half cock notch, remove the spent cap, then clean the nipple with a fresh cleaning patch with spit, before unending the gun, and putting the same patch over the muzzle. Then I would run it down the barrel to remove the powder residue as part of my between shots cleaning routine. When the barrel was loaded, and the ramrod was put aside, the last thing I did was put a new cap on the nipple to ready the rifle to be fired. It was a very fast, and efficient way to clean my gun and make sure the gun would fire the next shot. I still use the same technique when loading and cleaning my percussion DB shotgun.

 

[Billnpatti]

If I were you, as soon as I get it, I'd return it without ever opening the package. Use your refund to buy good CCI #11 caps. Those darned 209 primer adaptors are just a jim crack. They are a gadget designed by the ambitiously uninformed and sold by the unscrupulous to the unsuspecting. :2

 

[R.M.]

Hey Bill, where are you located? Some states don't allow the use of 209 primers in the ML season. Something else to think about.

 

[Pork Chop]

A Renegade that I had came with one of those installed on it. It would be a major PITA to reload that with any speed. Based only on that, I put a standard nipple on it and called it a day...