.36 vs. .44 "Stopping Power"

[bud in pa]

I remember an article by Phil Shoemaker where a client wounded a Brown bear. He sent the client back to the cabin with the Jr. guide and had the guide bring back ani-other guide. Any how they found the bear in the brush. The guide shot it with his 375 H & H magnum. his gun jammed, Phil shot the bear with a 505 Gibbs, I don't remember how many times but the bear slid to within 10 feet of him! Definitely a fresh underwear situation. I have black bears come in my yard quite often. The most effective thing I have found is a boat horn, a can of compressed air with a horn on it. Scares them every time.

 

[bud in pa]

If you practice and can hit what you aim at, a shot to the face or testicles will stop any man.

 

[nick_1]

It's all about shot placement as long as you have the penetration to get it done. There are timers and switches just like knife fighting. A timer will bleed you out but not fast enough to keep you from doing damage. A switch is just what it sounds like. Central nervous system is the switch. The Inuit woman who killed the largest known brown bear with a .22 long knew this and shot a switch. Hickok tried to shoot a switch with his griz but he hit the forehead with a .36 navy and did not get penetration. That got nasty for him. I was very impressed with the power of the 1858 and 220g conical. I suspect that might have the penetration required? 10Ga means nothing if you don't hit the right spot. Friend of mine needed 3 shots with a 300 Win mag to down deer at 40yrds....

 

[1950DAVE]

I posted this a few days ago. I think as he speaks of army , navy, he has in mind .36 and .44.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/colt-army-navy-effectiveness.185580/post-2709384

 

[TNGhost]

It's all about shot placement as long as you have the penetration to get it done. There are timers and switches just like knife fighting. A timer will bleed you out but not fast enough to keep you from doing damage. A switch is just what it sounds like. Central nervous system is the switch. The Inuit woman who killed the largest known brown bear with a .22 long knew this and shot a switch. Hickok tried to shoot a switch with his griz but he hit the forehead with a .36 navy and did not get penetration. That got nasty for him. I was very impressed with the power of the 1858 and 220g conical. I suspect that might have the penetration required? 10Ga means nothing if you don't hit the right spot. Friend of mine needed 3 shots with a 300 Win mag to down deer at 40yrds....

Yep, shot placement is the key. Doesn't matter how big bad and powerful your firearm is, if you don't hit where you need to aim.

 

[Rifleman1776]

A 22 hit in the right place will kill something

A 22 hit in the right place will kill something

Yes. As derided the lowly .22lr is it can be effective at times. I recently watched one of those game warden shows. They were arresting a guy for killing a black bear out of season. The bear had been raiding the man's garbage and he shot it once with a .22lr in a attempt to discourage it. But, the bear fell dead from the shot.

 

[Dark Angel]

When people asked about my carry 41 magnum I told them it was to shoot myself if I encountered a grizzly (brown) bear!

I had zero expectations of it for bear SD. Noise maker yes, snipe a bear if I had to if I could get up in a tree (if it would not leave) yes.

As noted with the 357, eventually it would kill a bear.

Had a friend that liked to hunt moose. He carried a .458 Win. Mag. He told the story of how he had come upon a grizzly while hunting. A small ravine, about 10 yards across separated him from the bear, he said that down one side of the ravine and up the other was about 1/4 mile. Said he leveled his .458 at the bear then changed his mind because, according to him, he wasn't sure that if was enough rifle and if not killed outright the bear could possibly jump that 10 yards and rearrange the location of his body parts. I suppose that in the past, people used bp because it's all they had, but I've known people that would deliberately hunt bear, usually black bear with C&B revolvers, but then. I've also wondered/worried about their mental state too when doing something this stupid.

 

[J.B. Arthur]

Seriously. There's a lot of people I've never heard of.

Your no less than. I get it and don't hold such against you. There are people I've never heard of myself. That said you now have heard of Elmer Kieth and In MY opinion you'd be well served to do some research if your interested in sixguns at all he wrecking old Colts in 44Spl, or the development of the.357 and the mighty .44 Mag. I was thirteen years old in 1984. I found Elmer Kieth in January and he died in Feb 1984. The 14th IIRC. Elmer helped change or set my trajectory in life. And for that...I am grateful. I'm in the bigger is better camp. Something with a wide metplat. A flat faced thumper. Skeeter Skelton is another writer that had a profound effect on me.Hes the reason I love the 44 Spl so much in a converted flattop unmentionable. What 13 year old kid takes to that so early on? I did

 

[rodwha]

Your no less than. I get it and don't hold such against you. There are people I've never heard of myself. That said you now have heard of Elmer Kieth and In MY opinion you'd be well served to do some research if your interested in sixguns at all he wrecking old Colts in 44Spl, or the development of the.357 and the mighty .44 Mag. I was thirteen years old in 1984. I found Elmer Kieth in January and he died in Feb 1984. The 14th IIRC. Elmer helped change or set my trajectory in life. And for that...I am grateful. I'm in the bigger is better camp. Something with a wide metplat. A flat faced thumper. Skeeter Skelton is another writer that had a profound effect on me.Hes the reason I love the 44 Spl so much in a converted flattop unmentionable. What 13 year old kid takes to that so early on? I did

100% agree. Elmer did a lot for the gun community.

Up until more recent modern powders bigger was better. Want to hunt something big or in the midst of things that are dangerous? You’d be carrying large calibers.

And big wide meplats are the most ideal, especially in these handguns. And more so if all we had was the anemic powders that are more common. I read a bit of Elmer’s work, along with development of meplats using the .45-70. Wide meplats were best considering both permanent wound channel size as well as penetration. I use an 83% meplat for my .44/.45 revolver bullets.

 

[J.B. Arthur]

More homework for Dark Angel : “Sixguns” by Keith, and “No Second Place Wimmer” by Bill Jordan. Then move on to the scribing of Skeeter Skelton. Then we’ll talk about Jeff

That's a good reading list for anyone.

It would be a nice addition and a fine start to enhance one's collection....haha

 

[J.B. Arthur]

It would be a nice addition and a fine start to enhance one's collection....haha

Of course for maximum shock and awe throw in Keiths "HELL I WAS THERE" book

 

[Eterry]

Members all.
Let's get back to talking about black powder muzzleloading ( or Cap and Ball) guns. We've strayed far afield from that.

 

[olgrumpy]

Of course for maximum shock and awe throw in Keiths "HELL I WAS THERE" book

One of my favorite books.

 

[nkbj]

Made a plain base round nosed bullet mold fit my Navy Arms 1861 about forty years ago. One day we were setting up bricks on a fence rail and shooting them off. Round ball wouldn't budge the bricks but the plain base bullets tipped them over. Made an impression on me.

 

[Rifleman1776]

A flat faced thumper

I loaded and shot thousands of Keith style semi-wadcutters for my .44 maggie.

 

[shorthair]

Yes. As derided the lowly .22lr is it can be effective at times. I recently watched one of those game warden shows. They were arresting a guy for killing a black bear out of season. The bear had been raiding the man's garbage and he shot it once with a .22lr in a attempt to discourage it. But, the bear fell dead from the shot.

22lr with solid slug penatrates pretty good we used it for slaughtering full grown steers, a single shot above the eyes never failed. Sometimes we got 18-32" of penatration.

 

[nick_1]

Been shooting Lee 200g conicals through my 1858. Massive difference from round balls. Sends my steel absolutely Flying. I suspect.36 cal conicals would be much better than rb if you get the dope on the sights right. I am starting to get the feel for the 200g load in my 1858. Hitting 5" steel at 26 yards yesterday and 6" steel at 40 yards.