3F powder vs. 2F in .54cal flintlock rifle

[springfield art]

I used tons of 2F during 10 years of Rev War enacting, and simply got used to it; not too big, not too small! I do have 3F for pistol or whatever, and 4F for priming. I don't have the patience to try numerous combinations like some of the really dedicated guys; I'm more "minute of pie plate" as someone posted on here, and I haven't forgotten that quote!

 

[flatcreek]

My feeling is 3f starts the ball faster and 2f pushes it off a little slower. Sharper kick with 3f and maybe a better bite on the rifling with 2 f. I'm sure there are all kinds of variables that can affect the way your rifle shoots other than 2f or 3f, long barrel, short barrel, big bore or small, and many others, this is just one thing I surmise.

 

[springfield art]

It's a miracle how quickly Goex was rescued by our childhood pals, the rocket motor people!

 

[hanshi]

I've always liked and used 4F in the pans of my flintlocks. But I have to say that I've also had excellent results with 3F in the pan. Maybe just me but I can't tell the difference between them; they're both quick.

 

[RMH]

I use 3F for my 36, 45, 54 cal. muzzleloaders, and prime with it in my flintlocks.

 

[Nobody85]

As for rifles; I don’t think it matters all that much as to which powder is used. I’ve found that in fowling pieces; they pattern better with a courser powder. 2f, or even 1.5f does great for my fowler. It might have to do with slower powders don’t deform the shot column as much. All I know is what works best for me.

 

[TNGhost]

I have been using 2F powder in my .54cal flintlock rifles (T/C Hawken, Lyman GPR and my new Kibler Woodsrunner) for 30yrs. I did this because, this was always recommended in rifles over .50cal . My understanding for this was, because 3F powder created very high breech pressures. I'm told that modern steel barrels can handle the pressures. The upside being, you can use less 3F powder to get the same velocity as 2F and thereby save money. On the downside, I'm wondering if the 3F produces more kick or a lot more kick. Anyone have any experience or knowledge of this?

I tried at first to use 2Fg as a main charge in my .50 and 4f for the pan. It was sooo tedious for me, I decided to keep it simple. I switched to 3Fg in the main charge and the pan. It did burn cleaner, and I got more consistent chronograph of the muzzle velocity as well. I don't use what I consider a "large" main charge. The state minimum load for deer is 60 grains of whatever granulation that you use, so I tried 70 grains. It worked quite well back then, and I was using a .50 at the time. When I switched to a .54 I simply used the same bag and powder-charger. Worked fine, and has killed a lot of deer.

I think the recoil increase would be nominal. While the manuals all differ for when they recommend one switch from 3F to 2F for the main charge, they agree that there is about a 10% increase in results with 3F over 2F, right? 10% higher velocity should mean only a 10% increase in recoil, maybe?

Now the perceived recoil is another matter. All of my rifles and muskets are very wide at the butt. So backwards impact is spread out over a wide area. IF I was using a rifle with a much thinner butt plate, especially if it was metal and very crescent shaped, I might feel the recoil more, due to more pounds per square inch on my shoulder due to the reduced surface area in contact with that shoulder.

LD

As far as recoil, all else being equal (bullet weight, velocity, weight of the rifle, etc) the recoil is going to be the same. The pressure curve on the 3F, since it has smaller grains and theoretically will ignite faster (lots of variables there too) may be a little steeper, making the dwell time of the recoil shorter, causing the perceived "sharper" kick. Constants of weight and velocity maintained, physics dictates the force imparted remains the same. (that whole equal and opposite reaction thing)

About the 3F vs 2F vs 1F vs 4F, the recommendation of what size to use in what diameter/type of barrel is just that, a recommendation, that somehow along the way became "an old wife's tale" "rule"

The only issues to be concerned about are group size and fouling, so long as you use proper amounts of black powder

 

[TNGhost]

My feeling is 3f starts the ball faster and 2f pushes it off a little slower. Sharper kick with 3f and maybe a better bite on the rifling with 2 f. I'm sure there are all kinds of variables that can affect the way your rifle shoots other than 2f or 3f, long barrel, short barrel, big bore or small, and many others, this is just one thing I surmise.

The initial detonation can be a factor in projectile obturation and thus on the seal created, projectile to bore. The less the dwell time of the pressure curve the quicker the push and the more the projectile will obturate. More noticeable with hollow base bullets, and especially between black and smokeless (which is much slower). Many with older cartridge rifle shooters turn to loading black with HB bullets to "bump up the bullet to seal an oversize bore. Same principal as with Minies, and in theory, 3F will give you quicker and better flaring of the skirt to engage the rifling. The same is true of patch and ball but to a lesser extent

 

[Reno]

2f as pan powder goes off like lightning. i have killed several deer with 2f prime in the pan,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Agreed, I’ve used 2F as the main charge and primed with it as well. Great ignition and performance. I carry the one horn and it works.
54 cal rifle 50 cal rifle and 62 bore smoothbores