400 Yard Group

[nhmoose]

Inlines are unmentionable here are they not?

 

[cannonball1]

Why would you say that - title "firearms", sub-title "general muzzleloading"?

Please read my last post for the direction of the PP'ing. I thought I had the direction of the paper right. Please correct if I do not. Thanks

 

[52Bore]

My bad, but I don't seem to be able to make a correction to the post.
My point was BP and PP (1850's technology) is still very accurate - even compared to the most modern unmentionable.

 

[azmntman]

slamming unmentionables should be a pardonable offense :surrender: Even more so when sharing the story of a blow hard that ate crow :rotf:

 

[cannonball1]

I know - I know ya' all wear buckskins and a coonskin hat. I wear camo and shoot a inline from time to time, but that's not my passion. I have a friend who has since pass. He stuttered when he got excited and when he found out I purchased an inline with a high powered scope. He said, "I I I dddon't ttthink I I I'm ggooinnnng toooo spppeak toooo yyouu annny mooorrre".

He forgave me so I hope all of you here on the realm will too. If you stuff it down the barrel it is good enough for me. Actually when they allowed MLoaders to have scopes during the hunt, it really burned me, but now I have joined them.

 

[azmntman]

I know - I know ya' all wear buckskins and a coonskin hat. I wear camo and shoot a inline from time to time, but that's not my passion. I have a friend who has since pass. He stuttered when he got excited and when he found out I purchased an inline with a high powered scope. He said, "I I I dddon't ttthink I I I'm ggooinnnng toooo spppeak toooo yyouu annny mooorrre".

He forgave me so I hope all of you here on the realm will too. If you stuff it down the barrel it is good enough for me. Actually when they allowed MLoaders to have scopes during the hunt, it really burned me, but now I have joined them.

I have no buck skins and more often than not my hunting bag has to flimsy handles and ways WALMART on it (I never use the same baf twice).

Sure we can forgive but some camps my have ya put yer bedroll on the smoky side of the fire now that you've "come out" :blah:

I own one and have not shot it in 15 years. It's reserved for the possibility of getting a BP Bull Elk tag in the rut. I might then carry it for a longgg shot at a true trophy. However my usual instincts would likley ruin that possibility as I aim and fire my Invest Arms .58 Hawkin at a closer spike.

I am more than anything a meat hunter. Thats what draws me to traditional guns, wanna do it like great great grate grampa had to and I know with tem 8 starving sickly kids in the cabin he too would take the first "legal" :redface: animal home to ma for dinner.

So its OK! Just dont ever mention it again :nono:

 

[cannonball1]

azman,

I can tell yozz a meat hunter. Being from Northern Arizona - shame on you. I was just across the border on the Utah Paunsagunt this year mentoring my grandson. He shot a great buck and my friend was in Arizona on the strip. He shot a deer that will score in the 220's. Your the only meat hunter I know who lives in Northern Az.

 

[azmntman]

Well my friend, been doing this so long and have had so many huge elk n mulies and then cut off so many horns n sold for beer money (back "in the day") that once I got married and had 6 mouths to feed stead of one big one I quickly learned. No I will of curse shoot a huge trophy....if I see it first. I have several times shot a smaller bull/buck out from in frot of a (sometimes MUCH) larger one. Meat hunters learn real quick ya have about 1.5 seconds to shoot before something goes wrong :rotf:

I have a huge 6 pt bulland a 30" mulie on the all so I'm good. Now this season had I not totaly went to pieces (expeirenced buch fever for the first time ever) I would have HAD to mount the huge cous deer I was unable to pull the trigger on at 35 yards :redface:

:thumbsup:

 

[cannonball1]

Sorry I am just the opposite. I go by the adage, "People who shoot little deer, shoot little deer". I have gone home skunked several times. If I can't shoot one bigger than the ones I have, it would have to be the last hour of the last day of the hunt.

Anyhow we have drifted away from those interesting stories of long distance shooters and history of long distance shooting and would like to hear from any shooter who have stories from their long range experiences.

 

[ResearchPress]

... would like to hear from any shooter who have stories from their long range experiences.

I won the Hepsworth Medal this year at Bisley, in the Long Range Rifles Branch of the MLAGB match ~ 15 shots at 1200 yards!

David

 

[cannonball1]

... would like to hear from any shooter who have stories from their long range experiences.

I won the Hepsworth Medal this year at Bisley, in the Long Range Rifles Branch of the MLAGB match ~ 15 shots at 1200 yards!

David

David, That's really great to hear. Lets hear particulars because most on here don't know the size target and how many in the different counters? How much support do they let you use?

 

[RUDY MR]

Ned Roberts has a book out with the boys shooting 800 yards an longer

 

[ResearchPress]

Lets hear particulars because most on here don't know the size target and how many in the different counters? How much support do they let you use?

The same target is used from 800 to 1200 yards. It is 118 inches wide x 70 inches high. Aiming mark is 48 inch diameter and bull (which scores 5) is 24 inch diameter. By the time you’re out at 1200 the aiming mark looks pretty small!

Shooting is prone with two point sling and/or a wrist rest, or from the back position. The rifle can’t be placed directly on the rest. In the 19thC long range matches no artificial support was permitted, and the back position became popular, being more stable than prone unsupported.

”˜Technical’ shooting skills and equipment need to be refined at mid-range (200-600 yards), so that by the time you’re moving out to long range you’re able to focus your attention on weather conditions.

David

 

[azmntman]

Sorry I am just the opposite. I go by the adage, "People who shoot little deer, shoot little deer". I have gone home skunked several times. If I can't shoot one bigger than the ones I have, it would have to be the last hour of the last day of the hunt...

People who shoot little deer have a little meat in the freezer :grin: . People who wait until the last day eat beef from the stock yards:barf:

 

[MSW]

all bullet paths from muzzle target will have a more or less parabolic arc, which is necessary because the bullet begins to fall as soon as it is no longer supported by the barrel of the gun. thus, superelevation (the angle above the gun- target line) must be input to make up for the fall of the projectile due to gravity. a faster projectile will take less time to reach the target and will, therefore, require less superelevation. this is why some centerfire rifle chamberings are referred to as "flat shooting."

there are many other factors which play into the ballistic solution. as a practical matter, cross wind is probably the biggest problem: seldom does one get to shoot on a perfectly calm day. as the wind pushes the projectile away from the gun- target line, 'windage' must be input to compensate.

then there are the 'wierdo' factors - the bullet will slow due to the natural drag as it passes through the air, so the time of flight will lengthen. the bullet will drift in the direction of spin, because it's turning on its own axis as a result of the rifling of the barrel. the density of the air will effect the drag co-efficient, (input more or less windage and superelevation) ... the temperature of the propellant effects the burn rate and thus effects the muzzle velocity ... the amount (and relative viscosity) of bore fouling effects the variation of friction from one shot to the next, as well as the temperature of the bore of the gun. it large ballistic problems (think, 18 inch navy rifle) you must even consider the revolution on the earth as the projectile is in flight.

i was chatting with a centerfire long range shooter some years ago, and asked him about some 'hairy chested' rumor that thus-and-such a rifle could achieve head shot at a klick (1000 meters) ... he had heard the rumor and was kind of irked by the whole thing. (i knew a lot less then than i do now, but i will never have his level of knowledge) he told me that it was completely ridiculous.

he put a pencil tick on a 3x5 card and said here, hold this at arms length, that's about a one meter circle at a klick. At max ordinate (the maximum height above the gun target line) of a .308 round, you could put an 18 wheeler, with the cab, and the driver could stand on the front bumper and be safe.

asking sub minute of angle accuracy from a muzzle loading rifle is not, in my opinion, a practical idea at the range you suggest.

now, having said all that, i will be the first to concede that i have on rare occasion been proved wrong, and when this happens, i will be the first to admit my error.

the implicit challenge is there: someone hit an e-type (police silhouette) at 400 yards three out of five times with a muzzle loading rifle.

(as an aside, i could score nine out of ten at that distance with a rack grade M-16 before my eyes went south)

 

[ResearchPress]

..as a practical matter, cross wind is probably the biggest problem: seldom does one get to shoot on a perfectly calm day. as the wind pushes the projectile away from the gun- target line, 'windage' must be input to compensate.

Head/tail wind tends to be more of a problem at long range. With the high trajectory and parabolic arc, changes in head/tail wind will often mean the shot dropping just short of the target or just sailing over.

David

 

[MSW]

you may well be right ... my rant is based on my personal experience... seldom shot in a tail or headwind (not sure why, exactly) ... and it was with mostly the .223 family, so my shots weren't in the air all that long ..

however, you make a good point which i missed in my post ... :hatsoff: :thumbsup:

 

[cannonball1]

MSW, If I understand you, the challenge is to hit a E-Type Target(which is basically a target 19.5" X ##) so for all intensive purposes a target 19.5" round would do. That person would have to hit the that target 3 out of 5 times @ 400 yards Is that correct? If so I take your challenge.

 

[ResearchPress]

When you’re shooting a .45 cal 530-560gr bullet at 1000 yards, with the high arching parabolic trajectory, the bullet is dropping at a steep angle. This effectively reduces the ”˜visible area’ of the target. Add in changeable head/tail winds, and it’s ever so easy to drop shots short or send them just over the target.

David

 

[52Bore]

When you’re shooting a .45 cal 530-560gr bullet at 1000 yards, with the high arching parabolic trajectory, the bullet is dropping at a steep angle. This effectively reduces the ”˜visible area’ of the target. Add in changeable head/tail winds, and it’s ever so easy to drop shots short or send them just over the target.
David

Bullet at 1000 enters the target at 4 degrees.