.45 cal. prb or conical for whitetail hunting

[Rat]

Sharp's 4590 no I didn't know that about the express cartridges...just made some guesses and see I was wrong again!!


Ok TQ still friends and I think we'll give you a full pardon as it does not sound safe to storm Fort TQ under any circumstances with my squad. The risk would be too great. If we do attack it will be under the white flag with additional beer and BBQ sauce, and the rear-quarter of an Elk.

Well I don't think I'll be attempting deer with the .17", don't forget my smallest rifle(s) is a .58", next one is a .61" and then I got a .75" smoothie too. Now this may shock you but I ONLY shoot slug in my 1861 Springfield, she'll probably never taste ball, although I am going to try ball in my super-shorty .58 carbine. One of the reasons I chose .62" for my Jaeger was so I could use ball on anything. The other reason was that I would give me a lighter rifle than a .58" or .54", in the same size barrel.

I don't think a .45 PRB is that bad of a deer killer, although I agree with you (!!!) about having a 100 yard kill zone. Still if a guy wants to limit his range to 75 yards there is nothing wrong with that. But there is old Murphy's law, and last fall I saw the nicest black bear about five yards out of my Brown Bess's kill-zone...! (actually right at the limit, but I had no way to kneel, go prone, or take a rest such as a tree or rock) So an extra 25 yards of range is not chopped liver! It can make a difference. I WILL be looking for that bear next fall with the Jaeger...or any of his friends or realitives.

But again, I would have no problem loading a .45" with a good slug, and I might even do that were I to hunt with a .45". Probably another consideration as to what projectile to use would be just how big the deer in the area to be hunted are. In some places the White-Tails are very small animals, and in others there can be some real monster bucks. Also, there is Grizz where I hunt, so a small calibre rifle such as a .45" with ball would not really be an option for me...but then again, if one used a slug and matched ballistics to the .45-90, .45-110 etc...???

Runner, I'm thinking that a slug would have had the same effect on that neck shot as the ball, perhaps less as it may have just passed through with less damage...?? But I'm not a believer in the neck shot, so I would have let it go whether I was loaded with ball, slug, buckshot or whatever.

Rat

 

[Runner]

The 385 Buffalo Bullet or the Hornady 385 both have huge hollow point cavities that kind of insist on expanding, even at moderate velocities. With the 100 grain P load that was under that ball and one of the 385's, he would have been dead before he hit the ground. The ball was flattened a little and took a fingernail slice out of the edge of a vertabrae with a ball sized wound channel. The conicals would have been pushing a 3 inch channel at that point and the neck would have been broken.

There is nothing wrong with round balls for hunting. You just need to know the truth about them and act accordingly. Had I known the truth, I would have hammered the front shoulder and not the neck. They are not a neck shot bullet.

Beginners are beginners. They need all the latitude they can get. The conicals provide that. They need a bang flop recover their first few times. Round ball requires a little more finesse than the conicals do to acheive that.

 

[Rat]

Well you could be right.

:hmm:

Now if you could just put that deer back up where you found him, and we could shoot him with both loads, in the same exact place!

But I'm not going to argue with 100 grains under a 385 grain bullet...that's got to be a good killer.

Now I'm wondering if my '61 Springfield, with 100 grains of ffg under the REAL 456 grain bullet would have kept him down...!!!! Ha ha that sucker don't NEED to expand!!!

ff: ff: ff:

Rat

 

[Stumpkiller]

There is nothing wrong with round balls for hunting. You just need to know the truth about them and act accordingly. Had I known the truth, I would have hammered the front shoulder and not the neck. They are not a neck shot bullet.

Glad you feel we have a place in the world, seeing as you're posting on a category dedicated to the discussion of their use in hunting.

If you are not finding satisfaction in hunting with a round ball maybe you should change your methods and not your projectile.

In traditional archery, we don't care that someone has developed a 25 gr broadhead on a carbon arrow that will travel at 500 fps. We use a 145 gr broadhead on a wood arrow that lopes along at 150 fps because we ACCEPT and EMBRACE the challenge of primative and/or traditional weapons.

Same with an open-sighted muzzleloader and a round ball. It is our objective to hunt with a challenging weapon. Not adapt the weapon to be more efficient.

 

[Hoyt]

It is our objective to hunt with a challenging weapon. Not adapt the weapon to be more efficient.

That says it all far as my interests and desires in hunting with flintlocks and round balls are concerned.
Conicals interest me about as much as Barnes Triple Shock bullets and Claymore mines.
However..I'm not putting conicals down..they are fine for whoever wants to use them.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Agreed. I've used them in the past myself; but I did not consider them traditional.

But you caught my intent in the post. Change your hunting style to fit the weapon rather than changing the weapon to fit your hunting style.

Are you interested in expanding your skills or just extending your season? Neither is more right or wrong than the other.

But, if someone observes that they can get another 20 yards effective range by using a depleted uranium cast ball, it is effective but not traditional.

And there we get on the slippery slope of how each individual interprets the word "traditional".

 

[Runner]

I also use a flinter and roundball. Traditional is not the guestion. The question was about which is best for deer out of a 45. There is and always will be one answer to that question as long as you leave personal choice out of it. A 45 with roundball is a short range experts gun. People seem to think I am against roundball use. I am not. A 400 pound bear was killed with a 22 to the lung here last week. No one is trying to say the 45 will not kill. It needs precise placement to do so and provide a trail to find the game. That means short range and waiting for the correct shot, just like with my long bow. Most guys would be better served with the conical. Whether or not conicals are traditional, that is open to interpretation. They have been in recorded use for a long time, but they never were common here during the period covered by most traditionalist gatherings. Those are questions for another post on another forum.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Traditional is not the guestion...

Look at the top of the page.

"Traditional Muzzleloader Hunting"

Most guys would be better served with the conical.

They'd likely be even better served with a semi-auto .30-06, or by ringing the buzzer at the meat cooler at the local grocery store.

Even Mini

 

[Tahquamenon]

Not to split hairs, but I interpret "Traditional" in this category to not limit specifically to only a patch and a roundball. A conical might be a perfectly suitable choice.

Otherwise this would exclude 19th century conical's. Or is this category only for discussion related to PRB in rifles from all centuries other than the obviously the 20th.

::

 

[Tahquamenon]

Ok TQ still friends and I think we'll give you a full pardon as it does not sound safe to storm Fort TQ under any circumstances with my squad. The risk would be too great. If we do attack it will be under the white flag with additional beer and BBQ sauce, and the rear-quarter of an Elk.

Rat

::

I have the smoker heated up, plenty of apple and cherry wood for the elk, LaBatt's in the cooler and Seagrams 7 in the jug.
eace:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not to split hairs, but I interpret "Traditional" in this category to not limit specifically to only a patch and a roundball. A conical might be a perfectly suitable choice.

Otherwise this would exclude 19th century conical's. Or is this category only for discussion related to PRB in rifles from all centuries other than the obviously the 20th.

All depends where you (or I) draw the line in the sand for what you consider "traditional". If you mean them radical cone-shaped man-killers developed by Mr. Mini

 

[Tahquamenon]

eace:

 

[Runner]

It is for the most part polite discussion here. Reasonable is reasonable. My line on traditional hunting is sidelock, no plastic, no pellets, and no scopes. Traditional being used with the hunting modifier. I am considered inflexible and unreasonable by a lot of folks for that. Some of the people here seem to want to enforce re-inacting type rules on hunting. The sights on my Flintlock are not PC. Does that mean I did not kill a buck with a flintlock for real? I stalked up on and shot my biggest muzzleloader buck at 30 yards with a roundball. Since I used a roundball, that is a trophy? Since I applied a finisher out of a third model Dragoon, and it was a conical, does that disqualify it? Is it no longer a trophy?

For those of us that have killed several big truck loads of deer, we hunt how we choose. I choose to challenge myself with a flintlock some days, the Hawken or the Mountain rifle on others. My shotgun doesn't do roundball, or it would get it's turn also. We all agree that any of these guns will do the job. Where we disagree is when people try to put these choices on newcomers. They should be strongly discouraged from using roundball in the begginning, and to progress to roundball as their skills improve. Those hunting large tracts of private property with good backup might be an exception. Providing a beginner with the feelings that go along with finding no sign of a hit on a deer that was right there when they are sure they made a good shot is not helpful. Guys, this is all filtered thru the modifier, "hunting". If I had to go back to hunting public ground where hunting pressure was heavy, I would be shooting a conical in a gun sighted for that bullet and loaded with the best load I had found for it.

I still say come on over and we can argue this around the fire out at the cabin. By the way, that will be a non-alcoholic hunt. Sorry, I don't drink!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Since I applied a finisher out of a third model Dragoon, and it was a conical, does that disqualify it? Is it no longer a trophy?

Yep. That wasn't a muzzleloader (it's a cylinder loader at the barrel's breech). :crackup: But any deer is a trophy, if you feel it is.

I'll concede some on the "slap" factor; especially with a .45 m/l. Where I hunt I can count on seeing 15 +/- hunters on opening day, and I usually have my semiauto slug shotgun (I can't use a centerfire rifle there) as most shots presented will be a spooked & moving deer. After opening day, I tote a muzzleloader (we only get a week for dedicated m/l season, and who has vacation left by Dec 15th?). My shots average 40 yards, and I don't see an appreciable difference in time or travel once a shot is placed whether it's a 12 ga. slug or a .50 or .54 round ball. Some have dropped without taking a step, others run 100 yards, either projectile. Never had the "advantage" of a modern rifle for deer hunting, so I'm only limited (in my mind) by the lack of a follow-up shot. Generally, that's not an issue.

 

[Hoyt]

Well..since I've killed several big truck loads of deer...I'm going to skip the conical class and go straight into flintlocks and round balls and to make matters even worse I'll be hunting some of the hardest pressured public land in Fl. Where it's a big deal just to see a deer and if it's got antlers... you can feel like it was a good season. That's one of the reasons I decided to get into traditional flintlocks and round balls. It's a theory I brought over from fishing. I use real big plugs and bait when fishing....and especially when it's real slow.. cause if I ain't go'n to catch one I might as well not catch a big one.
Kinda the same thing where I hunt...deer are very few and far between..lately anyway..so I want to make them extra special when I luck up. Killing big bucks on that land is extra-special...but with a flintlock..that I made and a round ball...will make all that long waiting worth it.

 

[Rat]

Ha ha I think we are all forgetting that Ashtar mentioned, in his original post, that he would not be shooting past 50 yards. I think a PRB will work fine especially with a good stout powder charge.

Rat

 

[leadball]

I started out using PRB in 50 cal right from the get go and none of the 4 deer I shot traveled far. Of course, I wait for a good under 50 yard double lung shot. I have shot deer also with a 270 with 130 grain shells and have had 2 deer run farther after being shot with that than with a prb. I think its related more to becoming a better hunter and shooter with ball than bullet :m2c:. My eldest will be hunting for the first time with bp and prb and he is becoming a deadly shot. However, I have never had a pass through when i think about it with balls. Then again, when I enter the woods with patch and ball with the intent of hunting, the deer know it's only a matter of time for them so they all get thier affairs in order and make peace with God :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

I started out using PRB in 50 cal right from the get go and none of the 4 deer I shot traveled far. Of course, I wait for a good under 50 yard double lung shot. I have shot deer also with a 270 with 130 grain shells and have had 2 deer run farther after being shot with that than with a prb. I think its related more to becoming a better hunter and shooter with ball than bullet :m2c:. My eldest will be hunting for the first time with bp and prb and he is becoming a deadly shot. However, I have never had a pass through when i think about it with balls. Then again, when I enter the woods with patch and ball with the intent of hunting, the deer know it's only a matter of time for them so they all get thier affairs in order and make peace with God :hatsoff:

:redthumb:

 

[Bob J]

Then again, when I enter the woods with patch and ball with the intent of hunting, the deer know it's only a matter of time for them so they all get thier affairs in order and make peace with God :hatsoff:

:haha: :haha: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[tg]

If I recall it was determined that all the modern design/styles conicals were fair fodder here....even though they have no real connection or basis on the original 18th and 19th century bullets...it's that "spirit" thing at work again I think....