.45 Caliber: Deer?

[TCMonts]

Now where did it go?

 

[TCMonts]

.Maybe here?

 

[mule163]

What happens if you didn’t want the animal to run too far? I do both, shoulder and heart lung shots. If I don’t want it to run.. it’s a shoulder shot, also called an “ anchoring shot” if I don’t mind it running and have plenty of property to blood trail I’ll do the heart lung shot and blood trail. It’s up to the Hunter to make his/ her own shot for the situation at hand. Neither is bad shot.

 

[LME]

I know there are a few here that have never hunted with a cartridge rifle, but I believe that most here have "Backed" into this sport because using a modern firearm was no longer challenging or perhaps moved up from archery gear because of physical challenges. I'm sure 90% or more are very good hunters. There are many newcomers that just don't know. All I would say is "If you have to ask then for you the answer is NO. The ability of any caliber or gage is dependent on the ability of the shooter. Their ability to get within adequate range and and place a shot where it needs to go and the patience and ability to pass on any shot they feel is the least bit marginal. If you truly have all the above you won't have to ask, and the answer for you would likely be YES. If you have any questions about how I really feel, read the line at the bottom of this post.

I think you are fairly accurate with the exception of being to generous with the pecentage of good hunters. I believe there are to many new to the sport to have 90 %.
I have been wrong only once in my life.That was when I thought I was wrong but found out later I was right. I couldn't sleep that night for making such an error. LOL!

 

[David Veale]

The latest issue of Muzzle Blasts had a test of different calibers, including a .45 roundball with 80gr of FFF behind it. I've always hunted with 60gr (Goex) behind my patched .440, and thought it was a little lacking when the roundball ends up just inside or against the skin on the far side of the rib cage. That made me wonder if I should up my charge. What charges are others here using with a .45 roundball?

 

[smo]

.45 were what most of us hunted with in N. Alabama back in the day (70’s).
Dead deer -No problem with good shot placement…
DRT- Maybe , maybe not…

Nowadays I hunt with big balls…
.626 PRB 70 grns fffg Goex - DRT

I mighta’ nicked a lung….

 

[David Veale]

I mighta’ nicked a lung….

.45 were what most of us hunted with in N. Alabama back in the day (70’s).
Dead deer -No problem with good shot placement…
DRT- Maybe , maybe not…

Nowadays I hunt with big balls…
.626 PRB 70 grns fffg Goex - DRT

I mighta’ nicked a lung….

Curious what the string/thong tied around your rifle is for?

 

[Rifleman1776]

The latest issue of Muzzle Blasts had a test of different calibers, including a .45 roundball with 80gr of FFF behind it. I've always hunted with 60gr (Goex) behind my patched .440, and thought it was a little lacking when the roundball ends up just inside or against the skin on the far side of the rib cage. That made me wonder if I should up my charge. What charges are others here using with a .45 roundball?

What charge to use and penetration are constant points of discussion and debate. My first ml deer was taken with a .45 and 95 gr. 3Fg. Kill was instant but I was unhappy by the large amount of ruined bloodshot meat. After that and for the rest of my hunting career I killed my deer using only 65 gr. 3Fg. They died just as fast and stayed ded with hardly any ruined meat. As for penetration, IMHO pass through is not necessary. Ded is ded. I have read some theories that what you said about the ball ending up under the skin on the far side means the total energy of the ball (or any type projectile) means 100% of the energy was expended in the animal and was a perfect shot/load/kill. I dunno. But, I do know ded is ded.

 

[David Veale]

What charge to use and penetration are constant points of discussion and debate. My first ml deer was taken with a .45 and 95 gr. 3Fg. Kill was instant but I was unhappy by the large amount of ruined bloodshot meat. After that and for the rest of my hunting career I killed my deer using only 65 gr. 3Fg. They died just as fast and stayed ded with hardly any ruined meat. As for penetration, IMHO pass through is not necessary. Ded is ded. I have read some theories that what you said about the ball ending up under the skin on the far side means the total energy of the ball (or any type projectile) means 100% of the energy was expended in the animal and was a perfect shot/load/kill. I dunno. But, I do know ded is ded.

I would agree that pass through is not necessary, but it definitely helps with establishment of a blood trail and recovery -- particularly when shooting from a tree stand where the exit wound would be lower and be the first to bleed.

 

[oldwood]

If I have to pass up shots at a legal to shoot Pa. deer , because of possibly hitting a shoulder bone , think i'll go to a larger ball that will go the distance for me. Learned this through example ons snow covered day. Watched a nice five point buck prance around the other side of a cut over area about 200 yds. below me. Figured to eat lunch and see if he would come uphill to me , as deer were known to do in that spot. Finished my lunch , and here he came right to me on an angle. The shot had to be made as he was at a full diagonal stance . I shot him w/ my .50 longrifle , 80 gr. fffg. The 170 gr. ball broke his left front shoulder , as he jumped , his left front leg spun like a ferris wheel. The ball passed through that bony left front strucure and upon gutting him , found the ball had quarted through his internal organs , and stalled under the hide in his right rear ham , a full diagonal through his body. The ball was almost whole , and obturated to near a quarter in size . What would a smaller lead ball have done in this case ? Over the years , I experimented with .50 , .58 , .62 , .69 rifled , and smooth , as well as .75 smooth. Each has it's limitations , but my conclusion is bigger is a mite better for over all hunting results. Why take a chance , and loose a prize ? I have a .40 cal. W.Va. long rifle , I practice w/ , and use for small game w/ reduced charges. It's my current love , but I wouldn't shoot a deer w/ it..........oldwood

 

[Eric Krewson]

John, I have killed over 70 deer in my lifetime, I notch my knife every time I kill one to keep track. I could have killed hundreds if I used modern methods more often, but I am not about that, most of my kills were with sidelock B/P and traditional bows, mostly selfbows that I made. This is an older picture, a few more notches have been added.

You seem to want to discount my preference for two holes in a deer, one in and one out. You will find very few, if any, experienced deer hunters who don't prefer a hole in and out. I have 50 years of deer hunting experience so that is my preference.

I was the head tracker for a 4000 acre B/P and archery hunting club, we had 50 members, most of the members used unmentionables, I ran the club for 15 years. I always hunted in the evening, I would wait at the check-in station after dark to see if anyone had shot a deer and couldn't find it so we could get back on the track. I wish I could say I found them all but I didn't, I did develop a preference for well shot deer with a hole in and out, I could usually find these deer unless they were gut shot. What I found about inexperienced hunters is they got so excited about shooting a deer that they fell to pieces to the point they couldn't do much finding blood or tracking.

 

[Idaho Ron]

John, I have killed over 70 deer in my lifetime, I notch my knife every time I kill one to keep track. I could have killed hundreds if I used modern methods more often but I am not about that, most of my kills were with sidelock B/P and traditional bows, mostly selfbows that I made. This is an older picture, a few more notches have been added.

View attachment 298882

You seem to want to discount my preference for two holes in a deer, one in and one out. You will find very few, if any, experienced deer hunters who don't prefer a hole in and out. I have 50 years of deer hunting experience so that is my preference.

I was the head tracker for a 4000 acre B/P and archery hunting club, we had 50 members, most of the members used unmentionables, I ran the club for 15 years. I always hunted in the evening, I would wait at the check-in station after dark to see if anyone had shot a deer and couldn't find it so we could get back on the track. I wish I could say I found them all but I didn't, I did develop a preference for well shot deer with a hole in and out, I could usually find these deer unless they were gut shot. What I found about inexperienced hunters is they got so excited about shooting a deer that they fell to pieces to the point they couldn't do much finding blood or tracking.

You're 100% right. Two holes are by far better than one. The projectile that stays in ran completely out of energy. It barely got to the other side.
I am a firm believer that there is no such thing as wasted energy. I want my bullet to stop in the dirt on the far side of the animal. If my bullets stay in, there most likely will be a lot of bone broken and at least a couple of feet of penetration.

 

[SOLANCO]

My last Edition of Boone and Crockett (an old one),
shows the No. 1 Mule deer taken with 32-20, IIRC. My dad's good friend used a 25-20 rifle to kill deer in Texas his entire life. Btw, both calibers are STILL LEGAL in Texas.
It might be worth mentioning David Crockett preferred a 40 caliber flintlock rifle, and killed over 100 Black Bear in one year! I'm pretty sure most were treed or bayed up by hounds, but I still hope he double-balled.
Simply fact is deer are EASY to kill, not tough, nor hardy, and rarely attack.
But....PLACEMENT is EVERYTHING.
A great shot with a 22 LR beats a poor shot with a 458 WM.

The most prolific poacher caught in the region used a .22LR . I neither admire nor condone him. But he knew shot placement and could do it.

Range time. Range time. Range time. As you age, many things change. Not least your eyes. If you dust off the rifle after 11 months in the cabinet and your shots are not going where you thought you aimed them? Range time! If you are not shooting well you have no business hunting 'til you fix that.

 

[Eterry]

The latest issue of Muzzle Blasts had a test of different calibers, including a .45 roundball with 80gr of FFF behind it. I've always hunted with 60gr (Goex) behind my patched .440, and thought it was a little lacking when the roundball ends up just inside or against the skin on the far side of the rib cage. That made me wonder if I should up my charge. What charges are others here using with a .45 roundball?

Could you provide the results of the 45 prb from the article?

 

[smo]

Curious what the string/thong tied around your rifle is for?

It like a harmonic balancer ….I’m told.
Plus it forces me too raise my fat head and not shoot low…..

 

[Juniata]

In the 2021-2022 season I shot 5 doe with my 45 and roundballs.
I hit a 6th but did not recover because I was not allowed to track into the posted property.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

If I have to pass up shots at a legal to shoot Pa. deer , because of possibly hitting a shoulder bone , think i'll go to a larger ball that will go the distance for me. Learned this through example ons snow covered day. Watched a nice five point buck prance around the other side of a cut over area about 200 yds. below me. Figured to eat lunch and see if he would come uphill to me , as deer were known to do in that spot. Finished my lunch , and here he came right to me on an angle. The shot had to be made as he was at a full diagonal stance . I shot him w/ my .50 longrifle , 80 gr. fffg. The 170 gr. ball broke his left front shoulder , as he jumped , his left front leg spun like a ferris wheel. The ball passed through that bony left front strucure and upon gutting him , found the ball had quarted through his internal organs , and stalled under the hide in his right rear ham , a full diagonal through his body. The ball was almost whole , and obturated to near a quarter in size . What would a smaller lead ball have done in this case ? Over the years , I experimented with .50 , .58 , .62 , .69 rifled , and smooth , as well as .75 smooth. Each has it's limitations , but my conclusion is bigger is a mite better for over all hunting results. Why take a chance , and loose a prize ? I have a .40 cal. W.Va. long rifle , I practice w/ , and use for small game w/ reduced charges. It's my current love , but I wouldn't shoot a deer w/ it..........oldwood

I also have a .40 caliber but I would never use it on a big bodied heavy Ohio Deer. The 40 may be fine for all the tiny deer in the south. Just not enough ball to bring down a deer quickly. I believe the .40 is the perfect turkey gun, but we can't shoot them with a rifle.
Ohio Rusty

 

[Loyalist Dave]

A heavily loaded conical in .45 approximates a .45-70 cartridge.
No one questions that a .45-70 will work on deer!

Just be sure it's a 70 grain charge eh? The old load was 405 grains of lead and 70 grains of powder, probably at least 3Fg, and perhaps finer. Most of the commercial muzzleoader .45 bullets and molds cast a projectile under 300 grains. NOT that you need anything heavier. YET, IF one was to use say 40 grains of 3Fg and a conical, that person would be using an approximate handgun cartridge load. On the other hand one doesn't need to juice up the load to 120 grains, but I've seen guys that do that. Even TC at first thought the .45 wasn't adequate... publishing data in their first manual for double .440 round ball loads.

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've done a LOT of lung-only shots... the heart is tasty folks..., through and through and the deer are normally within site of the spot where they were standing when hit. Granted, that was with a .54, round ball, but I'm not sure that the result would be different using my .45.

LD

 

[TCMonts]

I would respectively disagree that 45 cal muzzle loading rifle can' match a 45-70. A closed breach and a 405g slug pack a lot more power than a vented barrel with around ball. It's true they make a similar size hole if you consider .458 and .445 similar but the rb MAY give full penetration on abroadside shot the 45-70 will penaerate from @zzhole to adamsapple.