.45 caliber RB enough for deer?

[nightwolf1974]

Please close thread....

 

[pamtnman]

Skychef, some of your posts here are downright shameful. I hope you are a better man in person than you come across here online, like a playground bully. Humans have communicated their hunts since our species first appeared on planet earth. It’s how we learn to hunt, by exchanging reports and experiences. Your aggressive and unpleasant attempt to pick a fight here shines a poor light on you, not me. Everything I’ve written here is true. Some of it has been published in magazines, some with photos, some not. The obituary I wrote for Don Heckman contained some truly unbelievable reports of our times afield, but I guess it’s too late to go attacking him. But you are the kind of guy to speak poorly of the dead, so go ahead. If there is a block function on this forum, I hope you and I can block each other.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I forgot to mention, all the deer I have taken with a .45 were broadside shots, mostly less than 40 yards. I have a bow hunter mentality and seem to always wait for a shot angle I that would take with my osage bow. Of course I wouldn't take a 40 yard shot with my bow, 15 yards with my bow would be my preference.

It wasn't mentioned if any of the lost deer shots were facing, quartering to, hard quartering away or Texas heart shots.

Pantman, Skychief is good folk, one of the best we have on this site, he has helped me immensely with my lousy fowler patterns and a lot of other folk as well.

 

[pamtnman]

I forgot to mention, all the deer I have taken with a .45 were broadside shots, mostly less than 40 yards. I have a bow hunter mentality and seem to always wait for a shot angle I that would take with my osage bow. Of course I wouldn't take a 40 yard shot with my bow, 15 yards with my bow would be my preference.

It wasn't mentioned if any of the lost deer shots were facing, quartering to, hard quartering away or Texas heart shots.

Pantman, Skychief is good folk, one of the best we have on this site, he has helped me immensely with my lousy fowler patterns and a lot of other folk as well.

Crew, Good comments on the lost deer question, which to me is beat to dust and moot anyhow, since I flintlock hunt only with a .54 now.
I blocked skychef. I’m pleased he has been a positive in your online life here. I hope he continues that relationship with you. His rude bullying behavior with me is something I just don’t tolerate. A healthy adult is not looking for victims, or for opportunities to grandstand at someone else’s expense. His comments here were shameful. A disgrace. If he cared, he would have sent a message about it, and I would have sent him video links of turkeys and chickens running and flying with their heads completely removed. That would have ended his curiosity. Anyhow, skychef and I are now divorced here, so adios to that junk. Have a great day

 

[Skychief]

Thanks Eric for your kind words.

Pantman, I'm truly confused and sorry that you feel some of my posts here are downright shameful, that you see me as a playground bully, that I made an aggressive and unpleasant attempt to pick a fight, that you assume that I speak poorly of the dead, that I've participated in rude, bullying behavior, that I'm an unhealthy adult looking for victims or opportunities to grandstand, that my comments were shameful, a disgrace......

You mention that we are divorced, but, I'm seeing your posts fine. Maybe we are only separated and you are able to read this. Whatever the case, I've reviewed the thread and can't understand your last two posts. I was asked, by you, to explain my skepticism. I did.

Then, the fireworks commenced.

Best regards, SkyCHEF.

 

[mooman76]

When you block someone, you only block yourself from seeing their post, except quotes. They can still see yours unless they block you also.

 

[hanshi]

Let's see. I've had deer drop in place using prb in the .45, .50, .54 and .62. And, NO BS, I've never lost a deer hit with any muzzleloader I shot them with. I claim no special skill and use a simple patched ball in everything. I've hit 2 or 3 with neck shots which dropped them on the spot. But I NEVER aimed for the neck; one was running and I just led too much. The vast majority of deer I hit did run a little ways but quite a few of them were DRTs. I've had the good luck to have lived and hunted in state with an overly generous deer limit; in other words I killed a LOT of deer. So given near unlimited access to hunt them the law of averages will allow a gamut of senarios and successes but none will be outside the norm.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I've seen you make this statement (or similar) before and I believe you. That said, based on my experience, you've been VERY lucky. Sure, the odds of never losing a deer go way up when you're super conscientious about your shot placement, distance that you'll shoot, etc. etc., but you've acknowledged that you've killed LOTS of deer with muzzleloaders (which I take to mean at least several dozen) and you've acknowledged here that you at least will take a running shot. I've also killed several dozen deer (probably 30-40, but I'm not exactly sure) with muzzleloaders and I like to think that I'm pretty conscientious and ethical, but I've lost AT LEAST 5 or 6 deer over the years because of one thing or another. Again, you've been really lucky. I hope for your sake that your luck continues because losing them really sucks.

Let's see. I've had deer drop in place using prb in the .45, .50, .54 and .62. And, NO BS, I've never lost a deer hit with any muzzleloader I shot them with. I claim no special skill and use a simple patched ball in everything. I've hit 2 or 3 with neck shots which dropped them on the spot. But I NEVER aimed for the neck; one was running and I just led too much. The vast majority of deer I hit did run a little ways but quite a few of them were DRTs. I've had the good luck to have lived and hunted in state with an overly generous deer limit; in other words I killed a LOT of deer. So given near unlimited access to hunt them the law of averages will allow a gamut of senarios and successes but none will be outside the norm.

 

[George]

... I would have sent him video links of turkeys and chickens running and flying with their heads completely removed.

I'm not Skychief, but I would like to have that link to headless turkeys flying around if it's not too much trouble.

Spence

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hunters who watch their animals drop dead on the spot are quite fortunate. Especially black powder hunters. Or they are the usual hunters and fishermen who never miss, who kill two deer with one bullet, and whose fish is always the biggest. I love you guys, truly

Of the 20 deer that I've killed with a patched .530 round ball launched with 70 grains of 3Fg black powder, since I got my present rifle in 2005..., I've only had to track four. Six I've actually seen fall (only one was a spine hit, and one was a shoulder shot), and the other ten or so I could see "down" when I walked over to where they had been standing when I shot. The farthest was 110 yards away when hit. I'm not really sure why you think a deer properly hit with a black powder rifle doesn't act that way. The deer I've had to track for other folks actually were very close to where they were hit, and the hunter that I was helping always assumed that he'd have to track far so didn't bother to check close first....

LD

 

[GANGGREEN]

My experience has been the same as yours WITH A .54 RIFLE, but not with a .50 (I've only ever killed one deer with a .45 so my experience there is limited). I think only a couple of the 20-25 that I've killed with a .50 dropped on the spot and I've lost 5 or 6 others over the years even though I always try to make a sure shot. This is why I always suggest in the "Is .45 big enough for deer" threads that I prefer a .50 to a .45 and greatly prefer a .54 to a .50. Have lots of deer been killed with .45s? Sure. Can a really conscientious hunter who's a great shot retrieve most of the deer that he/she hits with a .45? Sure. Is a .50 or a .54 more likely to drop them dead in their tracks or to make them easier to track and find later if the shot was less than perfect? Almost assuredly. I think the answer is the same every single time it's asked. A .45 is absolutely capable of killing deer if the sportsman is responsible, but it's clearly on the lighter end as such, there's less room for error in the event of a deer that moves as you're firing the rifle, or a deer that gets hit off-center because your ball hit an unseen branch enroute to the deer, or the case of a ball that veers when it hits a shoulder blade or rib cage, etc. etc. etc.. Of course a .45 is capable, but they work best within strict limitations and when used by someone who can shoot and who isn't easily flustered at the sight of a deer in the woods during hunting season.

Of the 20 deer that I've killed with a patched .530 round ball launched with 70 grains of 3Fg black powder, since I got my present rifle in 2005..., I've only had to track four. Six I've actually seen fall (only one was a spine hit, and one was a shoulder shot), and the other ten or so I could see "down" when I walked over to where they had been standing when I shot. The farthest was 110 yards away when hit. I'm not really sure why you think a deer properly hit with a black powder rifle doesn't act that way. The deer I've had to track for other folks actually were very close to where they were hit, and the hunter that I was helping always assumed that he'd have to track far so didn't bother to check close first....

LD

 

[George]

I'm not Skychief, but I would like to have that link to headless turkeys flying around if it's not too much trouble.

How about it, pamtnman, are those links available?

Spence

 

[Skychief]

 

[nightwolf1974]

Ok guys, please stop this.....it's ruined the thread!!

I asked once, now I'm asking again........Please close thread!!

 

[George]

Ok guys, please stop this.....it's ruined the thread!!

I asked once, now I'm asking again........Please close thread!!

nightwolf1974, I'm sorry your thread was ruined, but in my opinion it brought up something more important than your original question. Any time a hunter says, as pamtnman did, "For whatever reason, only two of the dozens of whitetails I shot at close range with my long friend Pedersoli .45 flintlock actually came to hand. All the others went down and got up and were lost, or were clearly hit in the vitals but left the scene and were unrecovered.", i think something needs to be said. In case the thread is closed as you request, I have to say anyone with that experience should sell his guns and get out of the woods. Such behavior is an embarrassment to any ethical hunter.

Spence

 

[nightwolf1974]

Even with a .54cal with 100grns. FF, I won't shoot unless I know it will be a clean and effective shot. Even with "unmentionables" I won't shoot unless I'm sure it's a good shot.

 

[Skychief]

nightwolf1974, I too am sorry that your thread was derailed. Your writing that you won't shoot unless you know it will be a clean and ethical shot, suggests to me that a .45 would be a fine whitetail rifle for you to use. As I recall writing earlier, I saw little to no difference between its practicality versus a 50 caliber. Anecdotal evidence would tell me that a 62 caliber results in longer tracks, but, I know its certainly not true. You see I killed a buck 3 or 4 years ago with mine and he made a ~100 yard dash hit through the heart. Its the only deer I've taken with it and that's a pretty small sampling.

Most of the deer I've taken with .45's expired within 50-75 yards I suppose.

My opinion and experience is that a 45 is plenty if you're patient enough to wait on a sure thing, just as you describe yourself. Best of luck if you venture out with one this Fall/Winter. I hope that you'll treat us with a success story here!

Best regards, Skychief.

PS, I'm in agreement with Spence and am glad that he shared his sentiment. You'll not find a wiser man here.

 

[French Colonial]

Bite your tongue, don't say anything...Bite your tongue, don't say anything....

I can't stand it, here goes and I can hear the howls already

AT WHAT DISTANCE! 300 yards? NO your an idiot if you try it.

SHOT PLACEMENT! Can you pretty much guarantee a heart/lung shot, if not there is that idiot thing again. If you can not hit a paper plate off hand during practice at the distance you think you'll shoot at you should not be taking the shot.

Here is the part that will start the howling, My cousin who lives in the deep, deep backwoods of Georgia routinely kills deer with a .22. He head shoots them usually under 50 yards. Many times out the window of the house. He does it pretty much whenever they run low on meat.
There is nothing sporting about it and there is no one close enough to know or care. Yes, Yes, I know its unethical, Yada, Yada, Yada.

Should you do it..NO!
Do I recommend it...NO!

The point being is that...Is a .22 enough to kill a deer, yes.
Should you hunt with one..a resounding NO!

But returning to the question...is a .45 PRB enough for deer. Of course it is at a reasonable distance and with proper shot placement. Case closed.

Let the howling begin!

 

[Darkhorse]

I shot this plate a few months ago with my .40 caliber flintlock I built to be my main turkey rifle. In my state it's legal to hunt turkeys with a ML rifle. The load was my proven turkey load, 60 grains 3fg, .018 Pillow ticking patch. I bought several yards of some fine material many years ago and use it for my deer and turkey loads. .395 round ball out of a 38" Rice barrel.
The shot was taken at 50 yards or so. The ball actually penetrated the plate and cratered it leaving a ring of upset metal around the crater. BTW the plate is rated for center fire rifles at 100 yards and magnum pistols at 50.

If the lowly .40 round ball can do that to a steel target plate imagine the penetration it will have on a deer. I have no doubts that a .45 round ball is a deer killer. Hanshi spoke of hunting a state with generous deer limits and how fast your experience on shooting deer adds up. Well I live and hunt the same state and it is a target rich environment. For many years the total limit was 12. I really have no idea how many deer I've killed with both percussion and flintlocks, but I started black powder in 1996 and the fact is my total is pretty high. That's not counting the years I hunted with center fire rifles.
I've read every thread in this posting and it's like what I hear and see when someone comes to me to track a wounded deer. Bottom line is this;
The majority of hunters simply can't shoot very well. And they can't admit they might have missed. So the deer are always hit in the vitals but still manage to evade recovery.
And the shot deer seldom leaves a good blood trail and the deer is lost. That's true. And it's because most hunters haven't developed the skills of tracking a wounded deer.
You fix those 2 things and your harvested deer count is going to increase.
That 's it. Learn to shoot and learn to trail a shot deer.

And BTW, I would listen to Skychief as he is one of the few who knows what he's talking about. And as such can recognize BS right off.

 

[LME]

I shot this plate a few months ago with my .40 caliber flintlock I built to be my main turkey rifle. In my state it's legal to hunt turkeys with a ML rifle. The load was my proven turkey load, 60 grains 3fg, .018 Pillow ticking patch. I bought several yards of some fine material many years ago and use it for my deer and turkey loads. .395 round ball out of a 38" Rice barrel.
The shot was taken at 50 yards or so. The ball actually penetrated the plate and cratered it leaving a ring of upset metal around the crater. BTW the plate is rated for center fire rifles at 100 yards and magnum pistols at 50.

If the lowly .40 round ball can do that to a steel target plate imagine the penetration it will have on a deer. I have no doubts that a .45 round ball is a deer killer. Hanshi spoke of hunting a state with generous deer limits and how fast your experience on shooting deer adds up. Well I live and hunt the same state and it is a target rich environment. For many years the total limit was 12. I really have no idea how many deer I've killed with both percussion and flintlocks, but I started black powder in 1996 and the fact is my total is pretty high. That's not counting the years I hunted with center fire rifles.
I've read every thread in this posting and it's like what I hear and see when someone comes to me to track a wounded deer. Bottom line is this;
The majority of hunters simply can't shoot very well. And they can't admit they might have missed. So the deer are always hit in the vitals but still manage to evade recovery.
And the shot deer seldom leaves a good blood trail and the deer is lost. That's true. And it's because most hunters haven't developed the skills of tracking a wounded deer.
You fix those 2 things and your harvested deer count is going to increase.
That 's it. Learn to shoot and learn to trail a shot deer.

And BTW, I would listen to Skychief as he is one of the few who knows what he's talking about. And as such can recognize BS right off.

I agree but I was reluctant to mention the ability of the hunter?