Going to build a rifle. (probably a Jim Chambers kit but open to suggestions). Going to make it both flintlock and percussion since I like the flintlock look but think percussion will be better for hunting. Will only shoot round balls due to the barrel and the drum for the percussion. I do not anticipate hunting with it personally but hopefully someone will down the line. For deer hunting with a PBR how do these calibers compare? Or is a .54 better yet? Probably going to be a 38" barrel if that matters. And the catalog says that it will weigh about 8 lbs in .50 cabler.
,45 or .50...
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54ball
62 Cal.
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OK
This is a major investment so build this for what you will do instead of might do.
Hands down the .50 is the better hunting caliber and is fun to shoot. The .45 is viable as a hunting caliber and is a favorite. It's a sweet shooter. Nearly everyone that's been in this for any length of time will tell you how highly they think of a 45 although they presently hunt with a .50 or .54. So draw your own conclusion there.
A Flint Percussion convertible IMHO is a waste of a good lock. One or the other will stay in the drawer. The truth is the ignitions are so different when you change locks you change the point of impact. Basically it's like a new rifle every time you change the lock. This is one of those ideas that sound good in theory but the reality can be much different.
A flintlock is fine to hunt with once you learn it and can be as or even more reliable than percussion. For instance a Failure to Fire in flint is easily correctable most of the time, a FTF in percussion, not so much.
This is a major investment so build this for what you will do instead of might do.
Hands down the .50 is the better hunting caliber and is fun to shoot. The .45 is viable as a hunting caliber and is a favorite. It's a sweet shooter. Nearly everyone that's been in this for any length of time will tell you how highly they think of a 45 although they presently hunt with a .50 or .54. So draw your own conclusion there.
A Flint Percussion convertible IMHO is a waste of a good lock. One or the other will stay in the drawer. The truth is the ignitions are so different when you change locks you change the point of impact. Basically it's like a new rifle every time you change the lock. This is one of those ideas that sound good in theory but the reality can be much different.
A flintlock is fine to hunt with once you learn it and can be as or even more reliable than percussion. For instance a Failure to Fire in flint is easily correctable most of the time, a FTF in percussion, not so much.
when I got started in muzzle loading. the .45 was the go to cal. a .45 with prb with 70 gr. 3f will shoot through a deer at 100 yds. now I see every oe saying use a .54 up. have the deer evolved to be just that much tougher? or are is it just like center fire rifles they miss with a .30-30 so they need a bigger gun ? a .45 is a good all around cal. in these times of powder being hard to find and lead getting tougher the .45 makes even more sense.
I do agree about the locks though. build a precession first. then a flint later if you want. after all you can not have just one.
I do agree about the locks though. build a precession first. then a flint later if you want. after all you can not have just one.
You have had good replies. Do what you want. I would suggest the .45 since it is fine for deer. But, another consideration these days is shooting economy. The .45 uses much less lead and powder than bigger ones.
I used nothing but .45 for many years. Then my state opened bear and elk seasons. I finally got a .54. Then my shoulders went bad and I can't hold the heavy rifle.
Do wat works best for you.
I used nothing but .45 for many years. Then my state opened bear and elk seasons. I finally got a .54. Then my shoulders went bad and I can't hold the heavy rifle.
Do wat works best for you.
daniel collums
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for targets any of the cals. would be fine, for hunting also (not talking about bears). the powder charge doesnt have to be maxed out to shoot. i have 45,50,54 and shoot same powder load give or take a little in each and make my ammo. if you can get a good supply of cheap soft lead get your powder in bulk and a bullet mold you would be set. then all you need is caps or flint. if you go percussion find a good suppler and stock up and same goes for flints. I've had a bunch of percussion and no flint, so in the future i'm getting a flinter. If you pick only one that will give you a reason to get the other down the road,and will give you time to think about style,cal, and such.
You might also check your game laws in whatever state you are in. A 45 will do the job on deer and probably good enough in most states but for some the 45 RB does not have enough weight for their BP hunt. Something larger would be need for bigger than deer size game. I agree too on go one way or another, either flint or percussion.
Col. Batguano
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All will do the job with a properly placed shot. What you get with bigger guns is faster lethality with a less than properly placed shot.
Many times when deer hunting I've seen the deer walking, and had to wait for them to step in between a tiny window of trees that they would be in for only a second or so for the shot. Often this has resulted in placement too far back. I eventually recovered the deer, but have to think that had I been shooting a smaller caliber, I might not have. That's why I'm an advocate for hunting with the largest caliber you can practically handle and of course, shoot accurately.
Many times when deer hunting I've seen the deer walking, and had to wait for them to step in between a tiny window of trees that they would be in for only a second or so for the shot. Often this has resulted in placement too far back. I eventually recovered the deer, but have to think that had I been shooting a smaller caliber, I might not have. That's why I'm an advocate for hunting with the largest caliber you can practically handle and of course, shoot accurately.
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If it was deer only on the menu, and if 45 was legal for small game in your area, the 45 would get the nod. The 50 would be okay for small game too, but it's not legal for small game in some areas.
If you ever dream of doing bigger than deer, then by all means a 54 would get my nod. I use mine lots with reduced loads for snowshoe hare, but you'd still face the legality question for small game in other areas.
I'm kind of a "2 caliber jumper" when it comes to choosing the next gun for a battery. The 45 and 50 are really pretty similar, with the real noticeable jump in capabilities if you jump from 45 to 54. Similarly, if I already had a 50, I'd move on to a 58 rather than a 54 for my next gun. If I was to sell it all right now and rebuild a gun battery it would be rifles in 32, 40, 50 and 58, and a smoothbore 69. Could just as well be 36, 45 and 54 rifles, and a 62 smoothbore.
Given the same barrel diameter, a 54 is going to be lighter than a 50, while a 45 is going to be heavier than the 50. Dunno how that affects your thinking, but it will affect overall weight and balance.
If you ever dream of doing bigger than deer, then by all means a 54 would get my nod. I use mine lots with reduced loads for snowshoe hare, but you'd still face the legality question for small game in other areas.
I'm kind of a "2 caliber jumper" when it comes to choosing the next gun for a battery. The 45 and 50 are really pretty similar, with the real noticeable jump in capabilities if you jump from 45 to 54. Similarly, if I already had a 50, I'd move on to a 58 rather than a 54 for my next gun. If I was to sell it all right now and rebuild a gun battery it would be rifles in 32, 40, 50 and 58, and a smoothbore 69. Could just as well be 36, 45 and 54 rifles, and a 62 smoothbore.
Given the same barrel diameter, a 54 is going to be lighter than a 50, while a 45 is going to be heavier than the 50. Dunno how that affects your thinking, but it will affect overall weight and balance.
I have used the .50 and .54 and of the two I prefer the .54 - and that is what I ordered my custom flinter around. Have not tried a .45 but they certainly have a history of success.
Figure a .440" lead ball is 143 grains
.490" is 178 gr. (24% heavier)
.530 is 230 gr. (29% more than the .490 & 61% more than the .440"!
That's a lot more mass and energy and a pair of .53" holes leaks a lot more blood and air out vs. a .44" pair (46% more area). The more blood and air you can deny to a deer the shorter it suffers. The diaphragm moves and draws air into the lungs and if the holes cause air to be drawn into damaged and non-functional lung tissue it is a shorter time and distance.
A convertible will possibly be a problem in that if you have a vent that is suitable for a flintlock it will require removal and insertion of some drum arrangement that must fit just so and line up the nipple properly, rather than the simpler patent style cast in place.
You've also then got a flint vent that has to allow some tool, Allen wrench or screwdriver, and the associated slot or countersunk hole that will catch and hold gunk and moisture.
I leave my flinter vents in place and it's been several years since I have used one of my percussion rifles or shotgun.
Figure a .440" lead ball is 143 grains
.490" is 178 gr. (24% heavier)
.530 is 230 gr. (29% more than the .490 & 61% more than the .440"!
That's a lot more mass and energy and a pair of .53" holes leaks a lot more blood and air out vs. a .44" pair (46% more area). The more blood and air you can deny to a deer the shorter it suffers. The diaphragm moves and draws air into the lungs and if the holes cause air to be drawn into damaged and non-functional lung tissue it is a shorter time and distance.
A convertible will possibly be a problem in that if you have a vent that is suitable for a flintlock it will require removal and insertion of some drum arrangement that must fit just so and line up the nipple properly, rather than the simpler patent style cast in place.
You've also then got a flint vent that has to allow some tool, Allen wrench or screwdriver, and the associated slot or countersunk hole that will catch and hold gunk and moisture.
I leave my flinter vents in place and it's been several years since I have used one of my percussion rifles or shotgun.
palonghunter
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I doubt you'll be able to tell any difference between .45 and .50 on deer sized game. One thing to consider is that anything other than .50 cal is a bit more difficult to find balls for at local stores. On the other hand, if you cast your own balls, the .45 will use less lead.
I am currently waffling back and forth between .45 and .54 for my next flinter. I have two .50s. The .54 was way ahead, but I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a .45 now.
I am currently waffling back and forth between .45 and .54 for my next flinter. I have two .50s. The .54 was way ahead, but I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a .45 now.
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You can't go wrong with .45 or .50. I have hunted with both and like them both. They both put venison in my freezer.
Now I shoot .54 and .62 , go figure.
As far as the flint/percussion convertible I'd pass. You'll probably end up using one set up almost 100% of the time and if you change it over it'll be like starting from scratch. Just my opinion.
Now I shoot .54 and .62 , go figure.
As far as the flint/percussion convertible I'd pass. You'll probably end up using one set up almost 100% of the time and if you change it over it'll be like starting from scratch. Just my opinion.
Thanks for taking time to give me some good ideas. I guess what I really want is a flintlock that looks good and is fun to shoot. So I will drop the percussion idea. Probably will go with a .45. I want a swamped barrel. I already have a percussion .50 TC that shoots almost bullet pretty well so there is probably no real need for a .50.
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Already owning a 50, the 45 is a natural! You're gonna like that swamped barrel too. Keep the rifle light, and I bet your TC doesn't go for walks much any more.
Nessmuck56
40 Cal.
.45 = less lead to make balls,and takes less powder...what's not to like !!! Plus they crack...not thud . And they have no problem with white tails !,
I am gald to see support of the 45. I been wanting to get/ build a flint a long time In 50 cal. I found a great deal on a custom .45 but almost passed on it after reading how lacking the .45 was on many forums . I am going to get it today I hope
Let me start with I certainly prefer the .50, but I started as a kid with a .45 and after several years (like many others back in the day - probably selected the move to the .50 just as much by the influence of "Jeremiah Johnson" as anything else). I find it amazing that many of the originals were in the .38 to .40 caliber range. Less lead to carry, more ball, less powder --- as long as the shot is true and you're not attempting to take down a charging grizzly, the .45 will do well. Since this gun isn't necessarily going to be a hunting gun.... Never really gave it much thought about the weight of the barrel.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Started with a .45, went to a .54 mainly because of the increase in black bears in eastern NC...go with a flinter, forget the percussion, if you are using a good lock like a Chambers it is as reliable as a percussion ...
If you are going with a Chambers and a 38 inch barrel you need to get the Isaac Haines, it comes in .50 or .54...It's very well balanced as well...
If you are going with a Chambers and a 38 inch barrel you need to get the Isaac Haines, it comes in .50 or .54...It's very well balanced as well...
I've killed several deer with my .45 using 55 grns of 3f and a round ball. All shots were pass-throughs except on one frontal shot where the ball "apple-cored" the spinal column (one in a million hit). The spine hit deer dropped, obviously, and the heart/lung hit ones all made a 100-yd dash. I never lost one with it.
I originally chose the .45 as an all-around caliber for deer and small game. Later that same year, unfortunately, my state changed the law, limiting the legal caliber for small game to .40 or less.
Had that been the been the case when I bought it, I probably would have opted for a .50 for deer, but I have no complaints on the .45's performance. For target shooting only, hand's down, I'd stick with a .45. It's cheap to shoot and has no recoil to speak of.
I originally chose the .45 as an all-around caliber for deer and small game. Later that same year, unfortunately, my state changed the law, limiting the legal caliber for small game to .40 or less.
Had that been the been the case when I bought it, I probably would have opted for a .50 for deer, but I have no complaints on the .45's performance. For target shooting only, hand's down, I'd stick with a .45. It's cheap to shoot and has no recoil to speak of.
Billnpatti
Cannon
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Bill, you are going to be investing a good bit of money in this build so build the rifle that is right for your intended purposes. I get the impression that you are going to be using it for targets rather than game. If that is the case, my recommendation for a target caliber is a .40 caliber. The .40 is, for whatever reason, a more inherently accurate caliber than other calibers. I don't understand it but I just know that the .40 is the sweetheart of the target crowd at Friendship. I have a Jim Chambers Early Lancaster in .40 I can tell you that it is a tack driver when I am doing my part. So, for targets, I recommend a .40 but for hunting, I recommend a .54 'cuz it just has more of what Roundball calls "Whompability".
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