45caliber

[Praridog]

Was just wondering about calibers for front stuffers.What are the pros and cons on different ones? 45,36,50 mostly 45 which is what i have.I am a bit new to this type of shooting and need some education.Why would one want a 45 instead of 50 and visa versa,Thanks for any schoolin.

 

[Hamourkiller]

Hi Praridog, there are many members here more knowlegable about this type of shooting than I am. But I can give you my ideas that have developed from reading many of these posts and shooting my rifles.

First, are you going to shoot round ball or conical bullets.

Minie balls, maxi balls are all heavy long projectiles that carry great energy down range. BP guns with these bullets are very close to the big lever action rounds. 45-70 50-70 etc. Recoil is a real factor in the larger calibers 54 and 58.
Twist required is usually 1x48 or quicker. 45 with the conicals give the best energy for the recoil generated in my opinion. In conical bullet shooting you can increase the length vs bore ratio and get tremendous increases of kenetic energy and penetration power.
Recreat the balistics of the 45-70 and you will not be disapointed.

Roundballs are the cats meow in my opinion, they are accurate and not as bad on the recoil. Twist generally needed is 1x48 and slower. Specialised round ball barrels use 1x56 to 1x72 and even slower if you want massive powder loads.
I love the .58 caliber roundball, it seems to just over power the lesser calibers and not beat you to death like the .60's .62's .69's etc.
Larger Bore diameter and larger powder charges are the only way to more power, wind resistance and retained energy at longer range.

Patch, lube, wad, ball configurations can all be adjusted and lead to many enjoyable days at the range. Many are discussed in the historical posts.

Roundball, a member here, turned me on to using Oxyoke wonder wads over the powder then the lubed pillow ticking patches from Oxyoke. The wonder wads keep from burning your patch with hot hunting loads, target loads usually dont need them, but let your rifle tell you what it likes.

Real black powder is the only way to go, no substitue for the real deal. But you can get good results with the subs and a caplock rifle, flinters require BP to function correctly. There are several good powders to choose from, GOEX, Swiss, Shutzen, KIK etc. Several firms will deliver to your door at very reasonable prices. Fed Law limits individuals to 50 pounds or less. Best price is in 25 to 50 lb case lots.

This brings up another lesson. Just as in smokeless shooting lot to lot variance of powder causes problems. Buying case lots helps with consistancy.

I like the T/C Hawken / Renegade series of rifles which you can buy after marhet barrels for in a great variety of twists and calibers. They are very versatile.

Hope this info helps and read the historical posts, they are a mine of information. Then go shoot and shoot some more. Have fun, I know I am.

Hank

 

It depends on what you want it for. My .45 (and I have or have had .32, .36, .40, .45, .50, .54 and .58 rifles plus .62 smoothies) is my most accurate rifle and is very efficient in terms of powder and lead expended. For targets and whitetail-sized (or smaller)animal hunting it (.45) is a dandy. For larger animals the >.50s work better. .50 rifles are a good compromise for big game hunting and within reason will take any deer, elk or black bear, but most opt for the .54 for that purpose--an edge in bullet weight and hole diameter. .58 and .62 rifles are popular too for big game, especially elk or bear, but I found mine to be a bit much in lead and powder. The smaller rifles are mainly for small game and targets--the .40 is a fine target round but an "in-betweener" for hunting: too big for small game and too small for big game, but usable for both where legal (it ain't legal where I live). The .32 and .36 are classic "squirrel rifles" .

 

[Blizzard of '93]

The tightest grouping MZloader I've seen so far was a .45 ca., near one-hole groups at 50 yds.

 

P.S. just a few comments about BP ML rifles, RB ballistics and hunting: (1) traditional BP ML rifles are NOT equivalent to modern centerfires and CANNOT be made to shoot like them, no matter how much powder you pour into them. (2) The .45-.54 range big game BP rifles are about as effective as several obsolete BP centerfire cartridges such as the old .44-40 or about like shooting modern .357Mag pistols as far as downrange energy goes. (3) Most accurate rb loads are close to (or a bit more than) one gr powder per caliber (eg, 50 gr for .50 cal) or velocities close to 1400 fps. In my .45, 50 gr fffg is very accurate. In my .50, 60 gr fffg is, and so on. (4) Hunting loads IMHO are best when "power" is balanced with accuracy--eg, I can goose up my .45 load to 65 gr fffg, still have 1" groups at 50 yds, and achieve ~1900 fps MV. (5) "power" can be achieved in larger calibers with less velocity--you don't need "magnum loads". I use only 70-75 gr fffg for my .50 and 75- 85 gr ffg for my .54 for hunting loads. It takes 100 gr ffg just to get the ball rolling out of a .58--that's one reason I sold mine, though I miss it. (6)BP ML RB (black powder, muzzleloading, round ball) hunting should be a "close range affair"--especially as compared to modern rifle hunting. The old timers knew this. They used lighter loads on average than we do, they got close (often treeing or cornering animals) and shot into the vitals at point blank range--sometimes with the muzzles touching the animal! That is why Davy Crockett could kill 106 bear in one year with a .40 rifle--and even then he had to finish many with a knife. Think pistol range. (7) BP RB ballistics are not impressive, they kill anyway. The larger calibers punch a big hole that makes up for lack of velocity. Accurate placement of the ball is the key, not "magnum" loads. Even modest loads will put a ball completely through a deer under 100 yds. I am sure I have left out something, but you get the picture, I hope...

 

[roundball]

Was just wondering about calibers for front stuffers.What are the pros and cons on different ones? 45,36,50 mostly 45 which is what i have.I am a bit new to this type of shooting and need some education.Why would one want a 45 instead of 50 and visa versa,Thanks for any schoolin.

A .45 is an excellent caliber IMO, you can load it down with a 128grn RB at 25-30grn Goex 3F for small game all the way to a max charge for deer hunting if you like.
Plus, mild loads for target practice are economical.

A con is the ball is a little on the light side for long distance and shot placement to avoid bone is very important.

And, if yours has a good twist for conicals like a 1:48", the 255grn TC Maxi-Hunter is devastating on deer and the heavier conical holds good energy to longer distances than the lighter ball.

 

[boar]

I shot my 32 the most. Why waste powder and lead when the 32 will kill the groundhops graveyard dead. For deer I like 50&54,have killed one with 45. Usually take 54 as their is less weight because of the bigger hole in same size barrel. I own 32,36,45,50and54. Dilly

 

[PreglerD]

I have a .45 GPR cap and i use it for target shooting and hunting. The load is 90 grs PP, lubed wad, 0,12 mm lubed patch and .445 RB. Brings at 50 meters .8'' groups with three shots and up to 70 meters a good energy for roe hunting here in Germany. My measures with chronograph showed about 1100 fps at 100 meters and 400 flps at 100 meter. Up to 50 meters the charge is about 750 flps. For greater distances out of the forest I use my .54 with 120 grs PP, .530 RB and 0,20 lubed patch and a lubed wad between. This hell of a load brings about 730 flps at 100 meters.

 

[Todd Rickard]

The .45-.54 range big game BP rifles are about as effective as several obsolete BP centerfire cartridges such as the old .44-40 or about like shooting modern .357Mag pistols as far as downrange energy goes.

Wow! is this true? I would think a BP rifle would score better energy than those cartridges.

 

[cowpoke1955]

The old .44-40 is a 44 caliber 200 grain bullet with 40 grains of black powder. This combination has put a lot of meat on the table. In a .45 cal. muzzleloader, you have a 45 caliber 200 grain (conical) bullet with 70 grains of FFFg powder. That's getting close to a .45-70-305. One thing nice about the old calibers....caliber-powder charge-bullet weight. This qualifies for deer size game. Now use a 128 grain round ball and drop your charge to about 30 to 40 grains and you have a good varmit rifle. Good for ground hogs, coyotes and rabbits. You can take head shots or bark squirrels. With 1 in 48" twist, it allows you to shoot both pretty well. Just by changing the projectile and powder charge, you go from small game to mid-large game with the same rifle. I love my .45 :thumbsup: .

 

[Praridog]

WOW!I had no idea it could be that versatel.I see i have some spear-a-mintin to do..i have only shot 50 grain in it didn't know i could do more,or ,less. :bow:

 

[RedFeather]

That's another plus of a good roundball gun, one with a slower twist. You can really vary the powder charge.

 

[PreglerD]

Look at my post. I shoot the .45 in my GPR with 90 grs PP and RB for hunting.

 

[msb]

I have a 40,45,50 and a 62 smoothbore. The forty is a flint that I use for matches that require a flintlock. My forty five is percussion and my main target. My fifty is for anything 100 yards or more and the smoothbore is for smoothbore matches. I can shoot the 40 and 45 all day and never knoe I have been shooting.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Good luck with your new gun and welcome to the sport /forum! My son and I each have a .50 cal. Lyman Trade Rifle. We like the balance/feel of it and the built-in cheekpiece is a plus also. We went for the fifty's for several reasons: 1. There has been scuttlebut around here in Jersey that .50 cal. rifles were going to be banned, just the way the California's "Governator" did. A "grandfathering" clause was also a possibility, and I didn't want to run out and buy a .50 BMG bolt / semi-auto yet. To lawmakers, our ML could be classified as an assualt weapon :shocked2: . 2. A fifty is a in-betweener, and ammo costs less than the bigger guns, especially conicals. 3. A fifty makes a big enough hole so I can see it without having to resort to a spotting scope. 4. The BP League my son & I participate in makes you shoot 100 yds, even though it's sometimes very windy. A 370 gr. chunk of lead that doesn't hang in the air too long has a better chance of hitting the target that a smaller, lighter, PRB and the 370's work really well in a 1 in 48 twist barrel that we both have. 5. Did this one the other day with my brother: I shot a Maxi-370 through the middle of an IPSC target's "head" and then called the range "cold" so I could run to the backstop and retrieve it. When I handed a 1.75 inch-wide chunck of still-warm lead to him, he knew why I shoot BP :shocked2: :rotf: .
Don't think I'll ever buy anything smaller, and they do make them fancy carrrtridge guns in 50-70 and 50-90 too :haha: . Get smokin and let us know how you do. All the best, Dave

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Tho 40 cal is known as one of the most accurate calibers. I went with 45, because its the smallest caliber you can hunt with in most states.
Also I wanted certain options for my barrel which only are available with 45.

 

[LarryB]

I shoot a 40,45,50,54. I started with a 54 and hunted Elk and Deer.Have killed several of each and we have not lost any crippled Elk as yet. My sons and I use 100 gr of 2f and round ball. Some say that is excessive but it works for me. I think big is better for large game. I used the same gun at the voos with 50 gr 3f. It doesn't take much powder to poke a hole in paper or make a gong ring. I now use the 40 for the voo games and love it. The most acurat rifle I have. I think the 45 or 50 are both better than the 40 for an all around hunting and voo or paper rifle. As said above, none of them have a lot of power so good shots when hunting large game is a must.