I guess maybe I should have given the Lyman loads from the book so I could presume the liability for any accident that might occur that you seem to want to assign me.
At least I knew the op was asking about a pistol not a rifle main charge.
4F in .31 1849
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At least I knew the op was asking about a pistol not a rifle main charge.
Wonder how many of these folks have changed their mind over the last year?
Same op asking about it starting both threads.
It'll be fine, I have been using it in .45, .63, 12g and .750 long guns.
Many make the mistake in thinking a compressed charge burns like loose powder. It doesn't, in fact it is close to becoming a solid charge!
I asked all the na sayers to provide evidence (not speculation) of gun failure due to 4f of which none to date has been submitted so go figure!
B.
Many make the mistake in thinking a compressed charge burns like loose powder. It doesn't, in fact it is close to becoming a solid charge!
I asked all the na sayers to provide evidence (not speculation) of gun failure due to 4f of which none to date has been submitted so go figure!
B.
8 BORE
50 Cal.
Oh well, guess we will here about if someone looses body parts from using 4f as a main powder charge.
I'm glad someone remembered it and everyone be sure to read Zonie's post there.
For someone been on this board since 2007 and 377 posts in that time, average of 30 a year, you sure are opinionated of late. You must always be correct? You give up your cannon status?
Its pretty well documented that the powder in the pistol cartridges of the 1850's was very fine. The powder was almost of the size of modern 4f. The modest charges using 4f should be safe enough. The first edition of the Lyman Handbook did list 4fg charges in pistols. The second edition did not. The second edition also does not list chamber pressures.
The word from this old Grenadier is to use 3F. Save the 4f for pan priming.
The word from this old Grenadier is to use 3F. Save the 4f for pan priming.
8 BORE
50 Cal.
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hanshi
Cannon
I could be wrong but I don't see a problem with 4F in a little .31.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Not true at all. 4F was used in the paper cartridges during the Civil War by at least the Hazard company. Testing was conducted on the version for the .44 cal (and no doubt the .36 cal used the same powder). What was found was that it contained 4F and was as powerful as Swiss or Olde Eynsford powder. That’s 36 grns of powder pushing a 211 grn conical.
There’s also a former curator for a museum who disassembled metallic cartridges from the late 1800’s in various calibers including those that begin with a .4 that contained 4F and even finer powders.
So 4F was most certainly not just relegated to priming horns.
rodwha
58 Cal.
4F has most certainly been used in small calibers as well as larger calibers with small capacities.
With all of this said with the energetic powders available I don’t see a need to use 4F. I’ve read far too many accounts from those who’ve tried it in their ROA that accuracy declined. Now if standard Goex was the only choice I’d begin work with 4F because 3F just produces dismal results in revolvers.
With all of this said with the energetic powders available I don’t see a need to use 4F. I’ve read far too many accounts from those who’ve tried it in their ROA that accuracy declined. Now if standard Goex was the only choice I’d begin work with 4F because 3F just produces dismal results in revolvers.
31 cal baby dragoon 50gr. round ball 13 gr. G-0 ffffg vel=795
36 cal 1851 navy 81gr.round ball 27 gr.G-O ffffg vel=1090
44cal.1860 army 138round ball 37gr. G-O ffffg vel=960
These loads are from the Lyman black powder handbook..
I would trust a bon-a-fide company that tests loads and publishes the results before taking advise from computer keyboard experts.
BTW-Ol Dan'l Boone didn't carry two grades of powder to load his flintlock with,,,They primed with the same powder that was used for the main charge.
36 cal 1851 navy 81gr.round ball 27 gr.G-O ffffg vel=1090
44cal.1860 army 138round ball 37gr. G-O ffffg vel=960
These loads are from the Lyman black powder handbook..
I would trust a bon-a-fide company that tests loads and publishes the results before taking advise from computer keyboard experts.
BTW-Ol Dan'l Boone didn't carry two grades of powder to load his flintlock with,,,They primed with the same powder that was used for the main charge.
I'd try it, and I am pretty conservative in these matters. That .31 just doesn't hold a lot of black. Start low and work up.
8 BORE
50 Cal.
Yea I remember seeing that on TV
zimmerstutzen
70 Cal.
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Only the OP knows what kind of gun he has. The rest of us do not know the brand, whether brass frame or steel, or how thick the cylinder walls are. We do not even know if it is one of those kits from 50 yrs ago, that was never properly timed for cylinder alignment. Some of you are mighty loose with another person's safety. Can I guarantee that his gun will blow up. Heck no. Will it blow up? I certainly do not know. With all the variables of make and metallurgy involved could it blow up? most assuredly. Too many forget that there was some incredible junk on the market back in the day.
In light of all the unknown factors, what Lyman did in a laboratory with a gun of known good quality and metallurgy is irrelevant. Many of us have heard the story that Ruger once loaded an old army with smokeless to see if it could take the abuse. That hardly means we should jump off that cliff too.
Lyman published figures from it tests. Those were figures for a particular specific gun. for instance 180 grains in a 50 caliber rifle. Your stick that same charge in one of the old belgian made wire twist barrel guns that Dixie sold and you'll be pushing daisies. Just because it is published does not mean it is safe in all guns of that caliber.
In light of all the unknown factors, what Lyman did in a laboratory with a gun of known good quality and metallurgy is irrelevant. Many of us have heard the story that Ruger once loaded an old army with smokeless to see if it could take the abuse. That hardly means we should jump off that cliff too.
Lyman published figures from it tests. Those were figures for a particular specific gun. for instance 180 grains in a 50 caliber rifle. Your stick that same charge in one of the old belgian made wire twist barrel guns that Dixie sold and you'll be pushing daisies. Just because it is published does not mean it is safe in all guns of that caliber.
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Idiots are very resourceful people and they will always succeed at self harming themselves and or others.
How do we know?
Because there are countless accounts of idiots in a range of activities doing what they do best, like automobile accidents or extreme sports, them that like looking down the barrel of a loaded gun etc etc.
Now, show me please the documentation of someone, an idiot or other that has caused harm by using 4fff as a main charge?
I beg you, anyone, to come up with some factual account, please!
How do we know?
Because there are countless accounts of idiots in a range of activities doing what they do best, like automobile accidents or extreme sports, them that like looking down the barrel of a loaded gun etc etc.
Now, show me please the documentation of someone, an idiot or other that has caused harm by using 4fff as a main charge?
I beg you, anyone, to come up with some factual account, please!
8 BORE
50 Cal.
Oh yes, that's it. A false god of mythology!
Who is your false god
