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50 cal loads?
- Thread starter k.jacobfrost
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oldwolf
40 Cal.
paulvallandigham said:
I found my T/C Hawken .54 shoots PB best with 70 grains.
The formula yields a barrel volume of 5.84 IN3 and a most efficient load volume of 67 grains. So, my standard load is pretty close to the ideal load for maximum efficiency.
This is a neat concept because it corrects for different barrel lengths too. :thumbsup:
paulvallandigham
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Believe me, When I first was given this formula, I was more sceptical than anyone here. But, I tried it out, and the more guys I shared it with, who then tested their rifles, or compared their loads, worked up by weeks of test firing, to these recommended loads, the more the formula began to sound valid.
The problem I still have is that barrel harmonics is a true gremlin in the shooting game. It depends on relative thickness of the barrel to bore diameter, the size and weight of the PRB being shove down the bore, whether the barrel is tapered, or half octagon and half round, etc. Any number of things can change the harmonics so that all the formula can do is give you a starting point to find that " Sweet spot ". Remember, Charlie came up with this long before inexpensive chronographs were available to use to zero in on the best load for a particular barrel and caliber. Today, his formula is easily supported by using a chronograph to actually taking readings from different powder charges.
When I think of all the ball and powder I burned trying to find the best load combination for my first rifle, and then my second---- PHEW! His formula would have been a big help to me then. Today, using the chronograph, the only thing that stops me from finding a best load with a couple of hours at a range is whether I forget to take a complete range of thickness in patches to the range.
The problem I still have is that barrel harmonics is a true gremlin in the shooting game. It depends on relative thickness of the barrel to bore diameter, the size and weight of the PRB being shove down the bore, whether the barrel is tapered, or half octagon and half round, etc. Any number of things can change the harmonics so that all the formula can do is give you a starting point to find that " Sweet spot ". Remember, Charlie came up with this long before inexpensive chronographs were available to use to zero in on the best load for a particular barrel and caliber. Today, his formula is easily supported by using a chronograph to actually taking readings from different powder charges.
When I think of all the ball and powder I burned trying to find the best load combination for my first rifle, and then my second---- PHEW! His formula would have been a big help to me then. Today, using the chronograph, the only thing that stops me from finding a best load with a couple of hours at a range is whether I forget to take a complete range of thickness in patches to the range.
stalkerhawk
40 Cal.
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what would the load be for a CVA MT.Rifle 32" barrel 1:66 twist I think .50 cal
paulvallandigham
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Using a .490 PRB, in a .50 caliber rifle with a 32 inch barrel, and loading Goex Black Powder, either FFg or FFFg, the maximum efficient burn for that caliber and barrel, regardless of ROT, is 76.77 grains. Reduce that by 10% or aprox. 7 grains, and you are at 70 grains for a good accurate hunting load. Reduce that to 50 grains for a target load, and then try different loads from 70 grains up to say 90 grains, by 2 grain increments, to see if you can find a " Sweet Spot " for that barrel. Play with .015, .018, and .020" thick patches. Use an OP wad with the patching, and shoot the PRB without the OP wad. Please, use a chronograph to see what any changes in components in the barrel do to the velocity and SDV. When you think you have a good load, invest in every brand of percussion cap you can find- just a tin of each- and try them out over your chronograph. Try both standard and " magnum " caps. Again, record the velocity for each shot, and then compute the SDV, if the chronograph does not do it for you.
Try greasing the barrel after seating the PRB and see how that improves or ruins your load. Use a drop tube, if you have one, or can borrow one to load the powder down the barrel. FFFg powder needs to be compacted for best performance. Percussion guns should use FFFg powder, but some will simply perform better with FFg powder. I would work up a sweet spot load using FFFg powder, and then, using the chronograph to tell me how much more FFg powder I will need to add to get that same velocity that defines the sweet spot, try some FFg charges in the gun, and see what that does as far as fouling, cleaning, and ignition. Some patch lubes are so good for given guns, that you see a 50% reduction in group size the first time you use them. Someone is always trying a new lube. I am not a fan of oil based lubes, but some of the new synthetic oils are being used ands producing dramatically smaller groups for some shooters.
Invest in Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Accuracy System. It only costs $15.00. It is the best investment in information that will help you zero your gun and find the right load quickly for any given gun.
[url] http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/[/url]
Dutch has a formula for Ballistol and water for a " dry " patch lube that is outstanding in most guns.
This is what the Hodgdon Reloading Manual gives for a .50 caliber PRB using FFg powder charges.
70 grains = MV 1554 fps.
80 grains = MV 1729 fps.
90 grains = MV 1872 fps.
If you subtract the lower charge from the next higher charge, you will see that going from 70 to 80 grains gives you 175 fps More for your 10 grain
From 80 Grain to 90 grains, you gain only 143 fps more.
It becomes clear that the efficiency of loading more powder than 80 grains is in doubt. AT 100 grains, the velocity is only 1988, or an increase of just 116 fps. In just 20 grains difference in a slow powder, you have lost almost 60 fps. velocity in comparable gain, and it keeps getting worse from there.
Using FFg powder, the numbers will be higher, but the same drop in efficiency will show. One of the laws of physics- someone will help my bad memory here, I am sure-- says that whatever goes faster, slows faster. This is certainly true with all round balls moving through air. So, if you use your chronograph correctly, and even do some testing with the machine set up down range, You will find an optimum velocity for a .50 RB that has the relatively shortest flight time, and flattest trajectory for the powder used. Any powder charge more than that, any MV more than that is just defeating the purpose.
I learned all this trying to get a better pattern with my shotgun pellets, trying all manner of loads, wads, cups, types of shot, chokes, etc. I finally actually sat down and really read the tables in the Lyman Shotshell loading manual, and did some comparisons from the fastest loads and the lowest velocity loads, and learned what I was trying to fix with hundreds of different load combinations can't be done. I was trying to defy the laws of physics. Don't Do What I did. More velocity does not improve much of anything, be it groups or patterns, using round balls. There is an optimum velocity range for each caliber, and trying to go above it is a waste of time.
Also, the Sound Barrier really is a barrier to RB flight characteristics. YOu can go above it, and in some calibers, find loads that will still be above it at 100 yards. But when that ball comes down through the transonic zone, all kind of bad things happen to it aerodynamically. That is why long range shooting is done with conicals.
Try greasing the barrel after seating the PRB and see how that improves or ruins your load. Use a drop tube, if you have one, or can borrow one to load the powder down the barrel. FFFg powder needs to be compacted for best performance. Percussion guns should use FFFg powder, but some will simply perform better with FFg powder. I would work up a sweet spot load using FFFg powder, and then, using the chronograph to tell me how much more FFg powder I will need to add to get that same velocity that defines the sweet spot, try some FFg charges in the gun, and see what that does as far as fouling, cleaning, and ignition. Some patch lubes are so good for given guns, that you see a 50% reduction in group size the first time you use them. Someone is always trying a new lube. I am not a fan of oil based lubes, but some of the new synthetic oils are being used ands producing dramatically smaller groups for some shooters.
Invest in Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Accuracy System. It only costs $15.00. It is the best investment in information that will help you zero your gun and find the right load quickly for any given gun.
[url] http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/[/url]
Dutch has a formula for Ballistol and water for a " dry " patch lube that is outstanding in most guns.
This is what the Hodgdon Reloading Manual gives for a .50 caliber PRB using FFg powder charges.
70 grains = MV 1554 fps.
80 grains = MV 1729 fps.
90 grains = MV 1872 fps.
If you subtract the lower charge from the next higher charge, you will see that going from 70 to 80 grains gives you 175 fps More for your 10 grain
From 80 Grain to 90 grains, you gain only 143 fps more.
It becomes clear that the efficiency of loading more powder than 80 grains is in doubt. AT 100 grains, the velocity is only 1988, or an increase of just 116 fps. In just 20 grains difference in a slow powder, you have lost almost 60 fps. velocity in comparable gain, and it keeps getting worse from there.
Using FFg powder, the numbers will be higher, but the same drop in efficiency will show. One of the laws of physics- someone will help my bad memory here, I am sure-- says that whatever goes faster, slows faster. This is certainly true with all round balls moving through air. So, if you use your chronograph correctly, and even do some testing with the machine set up down range, You will find an optimum velocity for a .50 RB that has the relatively shortest flight time, and flattest trajectory for the powder used. Any powder charge more than that, any MV more than that is just defeating the purpose.
I learned all this trying to get a better pattern with my shotgun pellets, trying all manner of loads, wads, cups, types of shot, chokes, etc. I finally actually sat down and really read the tables in the Lyman Shotshell loading manual, and did some comparisons from the fastest loads and the lowest velocity loads, and learned what I was trying to fix with hundreds of different load combinations can't be done. I was trying to defy the laws of physics. Don't Do What I did. More velocity does not improve much of anything, be it groups or patterns, using round balls. There is an optimum velocity range for each caliber, and trying to go above it is a waste of time.
Also, the Sound Barrier really is a barrier to RB flight characteristics. YOu can go above it, and in some calibers, find loads that will still be above it at 100 yards. But when that ball comes down through the transonic zone, all kind of bad things happen to it aerodynamically. That is why long range shooting is done with conicals.
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Dave Rosenthal
70 Cal.
- Joined
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Keep in mind that your Deerstalker is a carbine-sized barrel and it will only effectively burn so much powder...less than a full sized rifle. And sometimes too much of a good thing will cause your groups to open-up some.
Next year I'll be putting together a Maxi-Ball fast-twist 40 inch custom barrel onto a Lyman Great Plains stock & lock so that I'll be able to effectively burn 100 grains of 3Fg to push my favorite 370 grain Maxi's at Mach 1.5 or greater. Yeah, I know I'm crazy :youcrazy: :shake: !
Happy New Year!
Dave
Next year I'll be putting together a Maxi-Ball fast-twist 40 inch custom barrel onto a Lyman Great Plains stock & lock so that I'll be able to effectively burn 100 grains of 3Fg to push my favorite 370 grain Maxi's at Mach 1.5 or greater. Yeah, I know I'm crazy :youcrazy: :shake: !
Happy New Year!
Dave
k.jacobfrost
40 Cal.
Well I don't know about crazy, but I do know you probably have one hell of a time at the range.
Frost
Frost
