50 cal not hitting broadside of barn

[Wes/Tex]

It still may be a problem with twist rate and ball diameter. I've seen fast twist rifles shoot PRB but required larger balls, usually no smaller than .005" less diameter than the bore with thinner patches. The guys I know who did this in a .50 caliber used balls as large as .498" plus a .010" to .015" patch while keeping the charge between 50-65 grains. Not sure if the ball and patch are sleeping in the rifling or exactly what, but that seems to be the secret.

If this is happening to you you might still get fairly close hits at 25 yards but they'd spin away much farther by the time they reached 50 yards or more. Not sure that this is what you're experiencing but this is a possibility. Good luck with your endeavors! :thumbsup:

 

[Grenadier1758]

Okay, you are still getting good groups at 25 yards. Then with no changes to the sights, you can't hit any part of the target at 50 yards? Have you tried setting the target at 30 or 40 yards? I'd like to hear what group your are getting at 30 yards. What have you done to the bore between changing the target range? Are you wiping the bore between shots? Are you changing the powder charge weight? If you are shooting from a rest, where along the stock are you resting the rifle.

In most situations, I would expect the group at 50 yards to be twice the size of the group at 25 yards. At this point, leave the file alone and the adjustment of the rear sight or the front sight. Yes, filing the front sight will raise the point of impact. You need to get tight groups before making any adjustment of sights.

Is there any motion of the rear sight. There shouldn't be since you said you still have good groups at 25 yards. What does the crown look like at the muzzle? Are your bullets perfect in shape of the nose or the base? Have you weighted the bullets for uniformity of weight?

 

[Casem4]

It's great plains hunter. 1 in 32 twist.

 

[mooman76]

Have you measured the REALs? Some people don't get good fill out of the bands. The mould needs to be run real(no pun intended) hot. Top band should be about .517.

 

[coloradoclyde]

It always shot low at 50 average was about 8 to 12 inches low and usually to the left. But I adjusted the windage and just low. Decided to try and hone it in and now the problems at 50 but not 25.

A 2-3" group at 25 yards... :shocked2:
That is very poor...IMO.

"Windage" does not adjust elevation...

Do you know how to sight a gun in?.....

 

[Casem4]

Hopefully everything I can remember buy I am running 2 dry patches between shots. Bore butter on bullet started the same with a ball starter rammed down the barrel in gentle firm solid stroke till seate over the same 70 fffg load. The sights are fixed. The front is windage ajustable but need a mallet and punch to move. The rear is fixed. Aim squeeze stare and nothing. I am going back to the range tommorow to put some lead down. Just scrubbed the barrel with hoppe 9 and gonna use gun oil as suggested instead of the butter. Also gonna pic up some Hornady and se what happens. Thanks for the help.

 

[Casem4]

Lmao maybe u misunderstood or I wrote this wrong. I was getting groups of half inch at 25 but 2 to 3 inches below center but adjusted the windage to get it centered but it was still low so I filed to bring it up. Got it about 2 inches above center went to the 50 and couldnt put on paper

 

[Casem4]

Now I think we might be on to something unfortunately my caliper is a cheap runs only .00 not .000 however it is plus or minus .01. And I measured 5 of the reals all coming in at .50. So if ur number is accurate I'm short and it could be causing the issue. I was wondering on the range if this could be the issue but didn't know what the size should be.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hopefully everything I can remember buy I am running 2 dry patches between shots. Bore butter on bullet started the same with a ball starter rammed down the barrel in gentle firm solid stroke till seate over the same 70 fffg load. The sights are fixed. The front is windage ajustable but need a mallet and punch to move. The rear is fixed. Aim squeeze stare and nothing. I am going back to the range tommorow to put some lead down. Just scrubbed the barrel with hoppe 9 and gonna use gun oil as suggested instead of the butter. Also gonna pic up some Hornady and se what happens. Thanks for the help.

1. Wipe between shots with a lightly dampened patch. I use rubbing alcohol. The dry patch only pushed fouling down into the reduced sized chamber at the breech. One patch with rubbing alcohol and one dry.

2. Try 2fg powder. The coarser granulation will be more of a push than a snap of acceleration.

3. Use the Hoppes 9 for black powder formula. You need the black powder formula to attack the fouling.

4. Before going to the range, use cleaning patches wetted with rubbing alcohol. You need to get all that oil out of your bore.

5. Go to Harbor Freight and get one of their cheap digital calipers. Often these can found with a coupon for $10. You should have a more precise caliper. For the record my Harbor Freight caliper measures within 0.001" of my Mituyoyo calipers or my Lufkin micrometer.

6. Get the 50 caliber over powder wad. That might help with sealing the bore.

7. Weigh your Lee REAL bullets. You may have some casting voids if you are new to casting bullets. Only use bullets that are very close to the 320 grains and made of pure lead. You probably won't see much of an accuracy impact at 25 yards, but if you have voids in your bullets, they will be unstable at longer ranges such as 50 to 100 yards.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Like the name states..R.E.A.L......does the rifling engage at loading?

 

[Casem4]

It's a hunter lyman with a 1 to 32 twist. When measuring the patch wasn't quite tight enough because it's a shallow spin.

 

[pwbsmokey]

2" high at 25 yards, I don't know what the trajectory is, but you might be shooting over the target at 50 yrds.

 

[mooman76]

Now I think we might be on to something unfortunately my caliper is a cheap runs only .00 not .000 however it is plus or minus .01. And I measured 5 of the reals all coming in at .50. So if ur number is accurate I'm short and it could be causing the issue. I was wondering on the range if this could be the issue but didn't know what the size should be.

Look closely at the bands. They shouldn't look all that rounded but almost have sharp edges and keep in mind the bands are tapered. Bottom is bore diameter of about .500 top is .017 larger or .517 over bore diameter and the ones in between are somewhere in between those diameters.

The over powder wad helps seal the gasses because the rings are not that big (like other maxis)and don't hold up to the higher pressures.

 

[Casem4]

I looked at the real bullet. I haven't weighted them but I suspect they might be off. The top is like before coming in at .50 and bottom is coming in at .48. The band's are not round a slight point but are not coming close to the .50. I'm gonna recast them.

Any tips on the mold and getting them really hot? I would think that it would be hot after casting 50 bullets but they are all seemingly the same which makes me wonder if the cast is off somehow. It was a combo deal with a ball .490. Regarding the wad. It was suggested about the bullet before vs my rifle bore that I could try and patch it never thought about a wad. Can you use alternatives to the felt? Like cardboard or aluminum or even a patch cut to size. Etc. I really got the gut feeling that this is it with maybe a little flinch lock to. Someone I know said that I had to remember it was a long gun longer wait time on bullet exit.
Some of these folks have to remember on here I'm not new to this sport started around 12 years old but always was handed a gun that had all of this worked out prior to use it was here follow this and great gun. This is the first time I'm left on my own with the kinks still on a new gun. But appreciate the advice.

 

[Dr5x]

Danny Ross,
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Are you sure the barrel is 38 inches long. That surprised me, nut you own two GPR's so I won't argue.

On the other hand maybe I read your post incorrectly.

Dutch

 

[Rifleman1776]

I went to 50 yards wasn't even hitting paper.

Just knowing that is where your journey begins. Until you work up a proper ball/patch/lube/charge for yer rifle and get tight groups at 50 yards from a rest, the point of impact is of secondary consideration. Read the other posts, get Dutch's system and start shooting. Good luck, let us know what happens. BTW, the "journey" I mentioned never ends.

 

[Danny Ross]

Change in bullet may help. Loading a muzzleloader is like building an accurate cartridge for a center fire rifle. What bullet does it like, what weight bullet, what powder does it like, what charge of that powder does it like, what lube works best, and as someone mention maybe even a lubed felt wad under the bullet. I see you are shooting 3f, play with different loads, maybe going up in grains may help (try loads up to 90grs with the 3f) or going down may help :idunno: the gun should tell you. If you can get your hands on some 2f try that. My buddy's boy tried 3f in his TC Renegade and he couldn't get it to group for love nor money at 50yds and he tried different loads. Yeah he was really frustrated :cursing: . I handed him some 2f to try and he had a tight group with the next 3 shots, tried one more round of 3f no where close, next round 2f in the group. I traded him a can of 2f for the can of 3f he had and he has never looked back :grin: . That gun diffidently told him what powder it wanted and what load, which he got correct right off the bat with the 2f. He killed his first deer with a sidelock muzzleloader that year, off hand, at 70-75yds, and center punched the chest of that deer. I stood there and watched him do it. Use a short starter to start your bullet down the barrel if it won't thumb start. I like the ones where you can interchange the starter tips depending on what bullet I am using for a conical. Just a thought with that. DANNY

 

[coloradoclyde]

I went to 50 yards wasn't even hitting paper.

Hard to wrap my head around that.....
Must be a really small target.....

I can hit my targets at 50 yards with
rifle
pistol
Bow
slingshot
smoothbore
pretty much anything that doesn't involve me throwing it....

Need bigger targets....

 

[smo]

It’s my understanding that GPR’s have a very tall front sight and they all shoot low.

Mine was like yours 6 to 8” low and 2-3 “ left of bulls eye.

If you file it too low you could possibly be shooting way too high at 50.

 

[Leatherbark]

Ok it looks like we have a Great Plains Hunter with the 1/32 twist and a 320 grain R.E.A.L

The R.E.A.L should thumb start almost to the top band. The you should have to give it a sharp Whack to engrave the rifling into the top band. Then upon firing the bullet upsets the rear bands into the rifling.

I assume you are lubing the grooves of the bullet with the bore butter.

You've filed your sights and are now grouping fine and the POI is AOK at 25 yards a fuzz high.

You then shoot at 50 yards with no hits on the target. Sounds like the filing might have been slightly too much the bullet is exiting and climbing up to hit the target at 25 and is still climbing and is shooting over the target at 50.

How to you hold on the target? Dead on or 6 oclock?

Bob