.54 or .58

[roundball]

I can't imagine a .54 being more of a killer than a .58 if loaded stiff.

No question about it...people get their heads all wrapped up in ballistics charts which are based on longer-than-caliber size projectiles with high ballistic coefficients that are shot at high speed out of fast twist centerfire rifles and take them at face value in applying them to round shaped balls...worse, when they compare calibers in the charts, many times they don't even compare apples to apples...ie: have to compare velocities...if I drive a .54cal ball and a .58cal ball at the same velocities, it's obvious which one is going to have more whompability.

 

[Zoar]

I shoot both 58 cal and 54 cal.
A .570 round ball weighs 278 grains;
A .535 round ball weighs 230 grains

So, I guess I look at it as: that's 48 grains of added wallop with the 58 cal. round ball.

I agree with the other guys who say either round ball would be terrific elk terminators. I don't think you went wrong by getting a 58 caliber. The main thing is how well do you shoot it. If you can shoot it to 3-4 inch groups at whatever distance you intend to shoot Elk or any big game with it, then it would be utterly lethal enough. It seems to me Elk don't need mega foot pounds of energy to kill. A well placed 230 or 278 grain round ball loaded up with hunting level powder charge will take it down and she won't be able to distinguish which one killed her more dead.

I'd be more focused on shooting the gun and determining what distances you were getting "game accuracy". 58 calibers are awesome and if the gun is a shooter and the shooter is a shooter then the 58 cal can be a terrific Elk gun, I would think.

 

[rabbit03]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

rabbit03

 

[Idaho Ron]

I shoot both 58 cal and 54 cal.
A .570 round ball weighs 278 grains;
A .535 round ball weighs 230 grains

So, I guess I look at it as: that's 48 grains of added wallop with the 58 cal. round ball.

I agree with the other guys who say either round ball would be terrific elk terminators. I don't think you went wrong by getting a 58 caliber. The main thing is how well do you shoot it. If you can shoot it to 3-4 inch groups at whatever distance you intend to shoot Elk or any big game with it, then it would be utterly lethal enough. It seems to me Elk don't need mega foot pounds of energy to kill. A well placed 230 or 278 grain round ball loaded up with hunting level powder charge will take it down and she won't be able to distinguish which one killed her more dead.

I'd be more focused on shooting the gun and determining what distances you were getting "game accuracy". 58 calibers are awesome and if the gun is a shooter and the shooter is a shooter then the 58 cal can be a terrific Elk gun, I would think.

I am not pointing a finger directly at you but repossess like this are :bull:
Elk are VERY tough animals. Contrary to what some people might believe they are not easy to kill. I have shot 18 elk. I say this with a lot of experience. Elk are tough! About the time you think you have a load that is "good enough" think again.
You said "It seems to me Elk don't need mega foot pounds of energy to kill."

This statement could not be farther from the truth. Bullet placement is the most important in the long run, but elk are BIG I have seen them run a LONG way after being shot through the ribs with a 300 Weatherby mag, 300 win mag, 338 win mag. Elk can soak up a lot of FPE and take off running. Your eastern White tails might fall over with very little FPE but elk are tough and they deserve respect for that toughness. Ron

 

[sharps54]

It's got absolutely nothing to do with FPE. If you hit in the right place and the bullet penetrates in a straight line the animal will die, a .338 bullet in the right place will not kill any better then a .308 or .270 bullet. I agree round balls aren't the same as modern bullets but the basic principle is the same. I'm NOT advocating you go hunting with a tiny caliber but to imply a .58 will kill and elk and a .54 won't is nuts. If the shooter knows the anatomy of the animal, keeps his shots close enough that he can hit where he is aiming, and close enough that the bullet will penetrate sufficently (No long range Texas heart shots :thumbsup: ) then he'll do fine. How come our grandfathers did so well with weak .38-40s, .44-40s, and .30-30s?
Sharps54

 

[laufer]

.530 over 100gr ffg will go through an adult bull elk at 100 yards sideways, full pass through, 30 yards later = dead elk.

 

[sharps54]

How come our grandfathers did so well with weak .38-40s, .44-40s, and .30-30s?

Yeah, I'm quoting myself, I just wanted to say I am not advocating this calibers for elk but obviously if they worked then FPE isn't everything. I love Elmer Keith but sometimes I think his writings about how a .30-06 is useless as an elk rifle still haunt us.
Sharps54

 

[Idaho Ron]

My centerfire elk rifle is a 270 winchester. Most of you would think I would be shooting only a belted magnum. I am still saying they are tough animals and a guy needs to use his head. Shooting a .54 PRB at 100 yards is nuts in my book. Ron

 

[Idaho Ron]

How come our grandfathers did so well with weak .38-40s, .44-40s, and .30-30s?
Sharps54

It was a combo of fire power, larger herds, skill, and the fact their ethics at the time were not the same as today, that is my guess. They didn't worry about only one shot, those were repeaters. The 30-30, I am sure took a fair amount of elk. Between it and a PRB a 30-30 is a great elk rifle. In my opinion NO PRB is in the same league as a 30-30. Ron

 

[sharps54]

I don't think we are that far off here. I agree all things being equal, if you can handle it a .58 is better then a .54 with PRB. I still think if you put the .54 PRB in the right place with enough velocity it will do the job. I will also agree with you that at a distance the .30-30 with modern bullets beats a PRB, apples and oranges there.

I totally agree with this statement:

I am still saying they are tough animals and a guy needs to use his head.

If he keeps his wits and chooses his shots carefully (letting those too far or at bad angles go) then he will be fine.
Sharps54

 

[laufer]

My centerfire elk rifle is a 270 winchester. Most of you would think I would be shooting only a belted magnum. I am still saying they are tough animals and a guy needs to use his head. Shooting a .54 PRB at 100 yards is nuts in my book. Ron

i agree that bull elk is tough, but your nuts book is outdated, they do go down after 100 yards shots with .530 prb. :wink:
shot placement and practice-built confidence in your gun and yourself at that distance. not every shot at that distance shoud be taken even with .720.

 

[laufer]

I don't think we are that far off here. I agree all things being equal, if you can handle it a .58 is better then a .54 with PRB. I still think if you put the .54 PRB in the right place with enough velocity it will do the job. ...

I totally agree with this statement:

I am still saying they are tough animals and a guy needs to use his head.

If he keeps his wits and chooses his shots carefully (letting those too far or at bad angles go) then he will be fine.
Sharps54

:hatsoff:

 

[Idaho Ron]

:thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

I've never shot with you, and I'm not going to make this point to impune your shooting or anyone else here. Let's just say it's for the average hunter:

If a new rifle excites you enough to shoot twice as much and become twice the shot you are right now, the new gun is going to kill twice as well as your old one.

I've got a couple of 54's and some smaller stuff. If I went out for elk today, I'd be packing the 54. When I finally get the 58 I want, the 54's are staying home. I can't say whether the 58 will kill better than the 54, because with the kind of shot I strive for, dead is dead. I'm not shooting much past 50 yards, and I'd have faith in either with a well placed shot.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

This statement could not be farther from the truth. Bullet placement is the most important in the long run, but elk are BIG I have seen them run a LONG way after being shot through the ribs with a 300 Weatherby mag, 300 win mag, 338 win mag. Elk can soak up a lot of FPE and take off running. Your eastern White tails might fall over with very little FPE but elk are tough and they deserve respect for that toughness. Ron

I agree with you Ron on seeing elk split country like a gut shot bear after being hammered by a 300 plus mag, I have seen it many times guiding, here is what I have figured out. The shock the mag rifle hits with will causes a large elk to high tail it, basically running dead. Until it's body gives out. On the other hand many elk I have killed with my 50 or 54 PRB just stand there at first trying to figure out what just happened, For sure if it's a bull I called in looking for some love or a fight, Less shock means less of a chance of that elk gettin' gone and many times I have calmed down a large elk by cow calling it to a stop just to have it drop dead 50 yrds away and less than two min later.
I think at times the shock from a mag on a elk can do more harm than just putting a slow moving lead projectile through both lungs, I'll expound on this more later, got to get the kid to daycare.
Adios for now
:hatsoff:

 

[laufer]

... many elk I have killed with my ... 54 PRB just stand there at first trying to figure out what just happened...

i have seen this too, where they are trying to see what is behind the cloud of smoke, i do not move, caw call a few times and stay still, they stay arrouond for a while and go down in peace. we had three dounble shots this way, where cows would stay arround after the first goes down for a second hunter to get his tag filled.

 

[laufer]

:thumbsup: :hatsoff:

don't get me wrong, if the season's conditition/terrain/ requires connicals instead of prb, i use them, omnly they are 3006 or 243, not .54.

 

[Vaino]

Me thinks that the difference betwix a .58 and .54 PRB is purely academic asre the effects on elk. With a properly placed shot in the vitals of the rib cage, I don't think there's much difference between .54 and .58 PRBs in how far the elk would travel or how long it would stay on it's feet if hit in the ribcage. Using either a .54 or .58 PRB, what other area besides the rib cage would be a suitable target? Some hunters who use the "modern magic mags" on elk seem to think that a "hit" anywhere on the elk will bring home the bacon and just aim to hit the elk and in many cases don't find the animal. Some deerhunters think likewise and the post season finds many unclaimed deer lying in the woods. Personally I use a .54 PRB and have shot some elk w/ it and it's always "got the job done", but the .58, if preferred, would do likewise. Both the .54 and .58 w/ PRB will do the job if the hunter does his job....Fred

 

[TopNotch]

I prefer the .54 caliber.It can do anything the .58 caliber can do with less powder and kick.I think its a lil more accurate too.I also like the much lighter carry weight of the gun.

 

[rabjr]

I prefer the .54 caliber.It can do anything the .58 caliber can do with less powder and kick.I think its a lil more accurate too.I also like the much lighter carry weight of the gun.

Yeah? How much your .54 weigh?