58 caliber flintlock help

[doubletrouble]

Have tried Goex 2F and it didn't shoot as well and still blew patches. I think I need to find a thicker patch material that can still be seated in bore.

 

[biliff]

Just a guess, but looking at your patches, I'm thinking you're damaging them at the crown when you load. Might have a sharp edge there, maybe break it down some with a little steel wool would help.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Have you tried letting someone else shoot a 5 shot group? I doubt much will change besides point of impact. I want to get back to this is a gun problem. You may be able to feel something with a tight patch.

Its time to run a bore scope down the barrel to see if there are any pits at the point where the ball sits on the powder.

Check the crown. Go for thicker patch and slightly smaller ball.

 

[varsity07840]

Looking at Chamber's website, it seems that your rifle has a single trigger. How heavy a pull does it have? The reason I ask that is that I built a Haines rifle from a kit 20 odd years ago. It's always had a very heavy trigger pull that can make shooting tight groups problematical.Changing the trigger position relative to the sear bar was not an option because the trigger plate mortise was already done. It's a tack driver if I concentrate with a prolonged squeeze.
but it will be all over the paper if I don't let it surprise me when it cooks off. One of thses days I'll get around to correcting the problem.

 

[doubletrouble]

I went to a local range where they were having a traditional shoot hoping to find someone to shoot it but had no takers.
The crown did have very sharp edged lands so I set it up in my lathe and recrowned it with a nice radius crown. The original crown cleaned up within .002 so I don't think crown is the problem.
The bore has no pits because the barrel is new and never been left uncleaned after shooting I always pump it out with hot water the day I shoot it. After washing residue from barrel I swab with alcohol to remove water and then swab with ballistol and kroll to rust prevent. I've also scrubbed the bore with both JB bore paste and steel wool.
The gun does have a single trigger and the pull is fairly light with almost no creep.
I think I'm going to try the .562 ball again with a much heavier patch just for the heck of it. I also ordered a .570 mold to give that size ball a try.
It would be nice to find someone that has the same gun to see what they are using.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The bore has no pits because the barrel is new and never been left uncleaned after shooting

When the reply suggested checking the bore they weren't talking about pits, but sharp lands. :wink:

I called Jason at Rice barrels which is the maker of my barrel and he was very helpful with lots of suggestions to try. He stands behind his products and said he would do everything to make me happy. Said he would repair or replace barrel if needed. Rice barrels is only about 4 hours drive from me so I may take it to him to see if he can figure it out.

That seems like the best plan. It should be shooting well out to 100 yards with a 95+ grain powder load, after you've tried all those patch variations, some should have showed marked improvement beyond what you have so far. (imho) It would be odd for a Rice barrel to be cutting patches anywhere..., but nobody is beyond something slipping through. It may simply need more polish.

I am surprised that you didn't start out with a .570 ball and a .010 to .015 patch, over 90 to 100 grains of powder at the beginning since that is sorta the unofficial "standard" for patched round ball vs. bore. No idea if it would make any difference at all..., just wondering.

:idunno:

LD

 

[BrownBear]

I am surprised that you didn't start out with a .570 ball and a .010 to .015 patch, over 90 to 100 grains of powder at the beginning since that is sorta the unofficial "standard" for patched round ball vs. bore. No idea if it would make any difference at all..., just wondering.

Same here. I have five 58 calibers, and .570 is golden with all of them but one, along with a patch just tight enough (generally .018 to .022) to require a good solid whack with your hand on a short starter to get it moving. Changes in powder volume and grain size have much less effect.

The single exception to the .570 ball is my 58 caliber Hawken from the old Green River Rifle Works. It has a tapered bore and a bare .575 ball hangs in the muzzle, while a bare .570 will hang on the slightest irregularity. A .562 is mandatory.

I tell you that because with a .562 mold in the house, I've naturally tried them in the other four rifles. Even with the "right" patch, they're all real cranky about patch thickness and powder charge, even inconsistent at times.

I also have a .575 mold. All four of the rifles are cranky about the thin patches it requires. Shoot just fine with tightly woven super muslin, but I haven't found any other fabric so consistently good.

 

[doubletrouble]

The reason I started with a .575 was this is what I was told to use when I bought the kit from Chambers. It has been 30 or more years since I owned a 58 muzzleloader and I couldn't find my old mold so I just bought a new one not remembering what diameter I used in the past. I then tried the .562 because several said that was the size to use.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well, in all honesty if I had .575 ball on my shelf, and no .570 ball or mold, I'd have tried that too. :grin:

LD

 

[doubletrouble]

I've got a .570 dia mold coming so I'll give that size a try too. I've got plenty of patch material and lubes to try also.

 

[doubletrouble]

Tried the .562 dia ball again with a .027 denim patch and 90 grs of 3F. This didn't shoot as good as other loads tried but patches were in good shape after firing. Going to wait for my .570 mold before a shoot again.

 

[doubletrouble]

Got my .570 balls made and shot gun again today. Tried 80 and 90 grs with a .022 pillow ticking patch. Shot about an 8 inch group. This size ball shot the worst of the three sizes I've tried. Patches were blown apart. I again used a Wonder wad under some loads and patches looked good but still shot horrible. I also tried a denim patch of same thickness with same results.
I did a dry ball test with just seating the ball an inch in and then one seated way down the bore. Patches were perfect with no cuts or damage to them.
Just to be sure I could shoot a flintlock I took my 50 caliber out today and shot it with same patches, a .490 ball and 80 grs of 3F. This gun has a 36" X 7/8" straight barrel with round bottom rifling. 4 of the 5 shots were in a ragged hole with one out maybe an inch. Patches were perfect with no burn or damage.
I'm done with the 58, going to send barrel back the Rice to see what they can find.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm done with the 58, going to send barrel back the Rice to see what they can find.

Good idea. Something is really out of whack.