.58 Rebore

[nkbj]

Got a chance to work up loads today.
The barrel has been round crowned and the rifling polished. There's one burr left a foot down that tries to cut with heavy duty charges but time will handle it.
Best working load found was a short starter combo of .562" round ball, thick denim 1 3/4" squares prelubed (peanut oil, beeswax, lanolin, soap) and 80 grains FFFg. Ticking will thumb load but denim has the edge on accuracy.
I had asked Bobby Hoyt to give it his best round ball rifling with twist to suit the barrel length and he done good.
I'd been wanting to get a shorter rifle of larger bore that was an analog to the jaeger style of hunting rifles. This fills the bill. In this configuration the handling characteristics and weight versus recoil have worked out nicely. The shorter sight radius isn't too much to live with; it's not a prairie dog gun.

Thank you Mr. Hoyt.
:hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

Sounds great! In my experience with various 58's on "Hawken" style stocks, recoil doesn't get my attention till I pass 100 grains. No dust on that 80 grain load though, and in fact it's what I shoot most of the time.

 

[nkbj]

After lapping this rascal in with crawdad clay the barrel loads easy and likes .575's and LOOB'd cotton twill on top of 100 grains of Jacks Battle. I really need to learn to hit with it off hand.
Still have to get :shake: 2it for the percussion barrel Mr. Hoyt recut at the same time. Maybe some day!

 

[nkbj]

For the sake of accuracy in reporting, the Lyman .575 round ball mold throws about .571. I was kinda shocked when the ".575" ball went in so smoothly.

 

[Dphar]

Got a flinter Renegade rebored to .58 bore and a 60" twist with 11/1000 deep grooves. Is there any style of conical that would work in that configuration?

A Minie will but why bother?
Dan

 

[Dphar]

NO!! You have a slow twist, round ball barrel. In a.58, you shouldn't need a conical unless you're hunting monster grizzlies.

The twist in the US 58 cal Rifle Musket was 1:72 BTW.
But the Minie flies like a dart pretty much.
If hunting monster bears one simply needs a larger RB, or maybe not.
Dan

 

[roundball]

I really need to learn to hit with it off hand.

You're probably already aware of this of course, that adding weight out front...especially with a shorter barrel...significantly cuts down muzzle wander, improves off hand accuracy, and soaks up some recoil at the same time.
The weight of a solid 3/8" brass ramrod makes a very positive improvement on all accounts for me...

 

[roundball]

I really need to learn to hit with it off hand.

You're probably already aware of this of course, that adding weight out front...especially with a shorter barrel...significantly cuts down muzzle wander, improves off hand accuracy, and soaks up some recoil at the same time.
The weight of a solid 3/8" brass ramrod makes a very positive improvement on all accounts for me...

 

[nkbj]

I really need to learn to hit with it off hand.

You're probably already aware of this of course, that adding weight out front...especially with a shorter barrel...significantly cuts down muzzle wander, improves off hand accuracy, and soaks up some recoil at the same time.
The weight of a solid 3/8" brass ramrod makes a very positive improvement on all accounts for me...

Mine is made from 3/8" brass tube with a 1/8" bore. I use the tubing because in makes threading the ends so easy.
With this rifle I have a tendency to shoot low and that makes me crazy!

 

[nkbj]

I really need to learn to hit with it off hand.

You're probably already aware of this of course, that adding weight out front...especially with a shorter barrel...significantly cuts down muzzle wander, improves off hand accuracy, and soaks up some recoil at the same time.
The weight of a solid 3/8" brass ramrod makes a very positive improvement on all accounts for me...

Mine is made from 3/8" brass tube with a 1/8" bore. I use the tubing because in makes threading the ends so easy.
With this rifle I have a tendency to shoot low and that makes me crazy!

 

[nkbj]

Got a flinter Renegade rebored to .58 bore and a 60" twist with 11/1000 deep grooves. Is there any style of conical that would work in that configuration?

A Minie will but why bother?
Dan

Oh, just because it's fun to see what works. If muzzleloading wasn't a hobby that provided satisfaction of curiosity and inventiveness then I'd doing something profitable like breeding work squirrels or training attack ducks. But seriously, I really enjoy trying out loads and seeing what works. There's always something to learn.
Got a 500 grain minie mold that throws a .585" outside diameter. Wouldn't be easy to load but would probably behave as a hollow based REAL.

 

[nkbj]

Got a flinter Renegade rebored to .58 bore and a 60" twist with 11/1000 deep grooves. Is there any style of conical that would work in that configuration?

A Minie will but why bother?
Dan

Oh, just because it's fun to see what works. If muzzleloading wasn't a hobby that provided satisfaction of curiosity and inventiveness then I'd doing something profitable like breeding work squirrels or training attack ducks. But seriously, I really enjoy trying out loads and seeing what works. There's always something to learn.
Got a 500 grain minie mold that throws a .585" outside diameter. Wouldn't be easy to load but would probably behave as a hollow based REAL.

 

[nkbj]

Took a few of the 500 grain minies and ran the back half into the .580" diameter sizer to load them as REAL's. Grouped between inch and two inches at 40 paces with 90 grains of FFg and opened up at 100 grains. That was fun and now I'm prepared in case I ever want something like that. I'm already wondering if a smaller plug on the mold could make it work better. Recoil wasn't bad. No pain.

Then tried the round ball again to see what would work for a field load that can be loaded with the ram rod. My thoughts were "that's a pretty tall order" and gave it a try. Ran the powder measure all the way out (120 grains) and loaded a light weight gabardine spit patch. It works, printing three balls wide.
It's raining so I'm gonna make a cup of coffee and clean her up. But before I go, a comment on the rifling pattern. At first I had reservations about what I received. What I asked of Mr. Hoyt for the barrels was rebore to .58 and his best round ball rifling. What bugged me was that the lands were so small. It was just not what I'm used to seeing. Well, I'm sold, and real happy I didn't try to tell the man his business.

 

[nkbj]

Took a few of the 500 grain minies and ran the back half into the .580" diameter sizer to load them as REAL's. Grouped between inch and two inches at 40 paces with 90 grains of FFg and opened up at 100 grains. That was fun and now I'm prepared in case I ever want something like that. I'm already wondering if a smaller plug on the mold could make it work better. Recoil wasn't bad. No pain.

Then tried the round ball again to see what would work for a field load that can be loaded with the ram rod. My thoughts were "that's a pretty tall order" and gave it a try. Ran the powder measure all the way out (120 grains) and loaded a light weight gabardine spit patch. It works, printing three balls wide.
It's raining so I'm gonna make a cup of coffee and clean her up. But before I go, a comment on the rifling pattern. At first I had reservations about what I received. What I asked of Mr. Hoyt for the barrels was rebore to .58 and his best round ball rifling. What bugged me was that the lands were so small. It was just not what I'm used to seeing. Well, I'm sold, and real happy I didn't try to tell the man his business.

 

[roundball]

"...and real happy I didn't try to tell the man his business..."

:grin:

 

[roundball]

"...and real happy I didn't try to tell the man his business..."

:grin:

 

[nkbj]

She definitely prefers top end loads, denim and slick loob.
(Click on the picture)

This was 90 grains of Jacks Battle. At 110 grains it's better. May have to drop back to FFg and run the charge up some more to get it tighter. As the video shows the recoil isn't bad at all.

 

[Bob E]

Goodcheer, The 1-60 twist is the exact twist used by R Hoyt for folks shooting the .575213 Lyman bullet in thier Civil War military rifles. I have several of these and they are all capable of shooting cloverleaf groups at 50 yds with 50 gns of fff. The Springfield minie rifles had a 1-66 twist and the 1853 Enfield had a 1-72 twist. The 33 inch short version of the Enfield had a 1-48 twist and shot the same ammo. Go figure. Some times the twist rate and the bullet length dont always agree with the mathamatcal calculations cited by the "experts". The military powder charge was 65gns of ff and that was proven to be very effective at killing infantrymen at several hundred yards. These minie bullets (and I suspect other conicals ) dont shoot very flat trajectories with any powder charge. I dont have much faith in huge, punishing powder charges even for hunting anything but Rhinos or Elephants. Cheers! Bob E

 

[nkbj]

Goodcheer, The 1-60 twist is the exact twist used by R Hoyt for folks shooting the .575213 Lyman bullet in thier Civil War military rifles. I have several of these and they are all capable of shooting cloverleaf groups at 50 yds with 50 gns of fff. The Springfield minie rifles had a 1-66 twist and the 1853 Enfield had a 1-72 twist. The 33 inch short version of the Enfield had a 1-48 twist and shot the same ammo. Go figure. Some times the twist rate and the bullet length dont always agree with the mathamatcal calculations cited by the "experts". The military powder charge was 65gns of ff and that was proven to be very effective at killing infantrymen at several hundred yards. These minie bullets (and I suspect other conicals ) dont shoot very flat trajectories with any powder charge. I dont have much faith in huge, punishing powder charges even for hunting anything but Rhinos or Elephants. Cheers! Bob E

Hey ant bee.
I'd really like to ask Hoyt about a minie ball barrel, with rifling best suited. And I have an aged and mistreated Renegade barrel to use. Do you think 26" is long enough for a .58 minie barrel? I knew a fella north of New Orleans back around '83 that deer hunted with a .58 minie carbine and loved the smack down quality (no hunting around after the shot was fired). Something I don't know is barrel length versus twist for a short .58, what would work best.

 

[Dphar]

Got a flinter Renegade rebored to .58 bore and a 60" twist with 11/1000 deep grooves. Is there any style of conical that would work in that configuration?

If you wanted to shoot conicals you should have rebarreled it to a 45 with a bullet twist.
Any of the Minie Bullets will work they fly like darts.
The Springfield twist for the 500 gr minie was 1:72, three shallow grooves.

Dan