70 grains strong enough?

[Maestro]

Mr. Roberts,
Because RB does consistently offer such good advice, I too believed you were honoring him, not degrading or being sarcastic.
RB - please continue with your common sense approach as I'm sure we all appreciate it. We may not always agree but it is good, solid food for thought and reflection. :hatsoff:
Best Wishes

:agree: I soak up these discussions like a sponge - even threads that I never respond to - after reading this one, I'm gonna be tryin' those Wonderwads between my powder & PRB's and see what they might do for my groups! :thanks: :thumbsup:

 

[shmrck1]

WindWalker,
:agree: with everything you said. I to thought
Mike was offering a compliment rather than a
put down. And I like you hope that roundball continues
with his most informing post. He certainly knows a great
deal more than myself about which he speaks.
snake-eyes :m2c:

 

[sniper68]

I want to put my first shot at a deer my best shot. I tend to be a perfectionist when it comes to hunting.
[/quote] :applauseon't ever loose that attitude... :thumbsup: :hatsoff:
In my rifles I shoot for a combo of accuracy and max load.
My general appraoch is to start with a medium load and work up in 5grn increments until the group spreads and/or I get patch burn thru, which kills the accuracy anyway. I don't bother with over the powder wad(I'm sure that works fine)cause that's just one more thing I have to mess with. I don't think the ends justifies the means.
All my rifles are slow twist, deep rifling and in 50 cal.. 70 to 80 grns of FFFg with a 18 to 20 thous pillow ticking patch and my favorite lube seems to be a good compromise for me. :m2c: :results:

 

Well today I was out at the range and I found that I got a good group at 50 yards with 85 grains 2F. I switched from 3f to 2f due to the fact that I was worried about it burning to fast. Any way I got 1 1/2 inch group at 50 yards with this load. RB I tried thicker patches (.18) pillow tickeling(sp)? This helped greatly thanks for the advise! I zeroed in one inch high at 50 yards. I am very happy with the results and I would not have gooten these results as fast if I set out to my own, thank you all who gave advise on this subject! I love this site almost as much as I love shooting dad's gun! :RO: :thanks:

Good hunting Koz

 

[roundball]

Well today I was out at the range and I found that I got a good group at 50 yards with 85 grains 2F. I switched from 3f to 2f due to the fact that I was worried about it burning to fast. Any way I got 1 1/2 inch group at 50 yards with this load. RB I tried thicker patches (.18) pillow tickeling(sp)? This helped greatly thanks for the advise! I zeroed in one inch high at 50 yards. I am very happy with the results and I would not have gooten these results as fast if I set out to my own, thank you all who gave advise on this subject! I love this site almost as much as I love shooting dad's gun! :RO: :thanks:
Good hunting Koz

Sounds great...your shooting skills must be good too.

You're right about realizing a difference in 2F and 3F burn rates...the general rule of thumb when using 3F is to simply reduce 2F load data by 10-15% for approximately equal pressures...so your 70grn 3F charge is easily equal to if not less than the 85grn charge of 2F.

Thick patches do make a big difference, and adding a wad improves on that even more...if you want to experiment one day and don't have any wads handy, you can just first seat a spare lubed patch down on the powder by itself as a firewall, then seat your patched ball down normally.

An extra patch won't have the same amount of lube in it that a wonderwad does, but it'll serve as a firewall, improve sealing, and reduce some gas blowby...should give better shot to shot consistency and tighten groups a tad.

 

I have been shooting since I was 10 years old, I have my father to thank for my shooting skills,( oh the army and police acadamy helped too).

:front:KOZ

 

[kentucky bucky]

I shot a medium sized deer with a .54 cal. longrifle, 42" barrel, and a 70 grain 2f Goex load . The range was about 45 yards. The ball went through the " boiler room" and exited with a chunk of meat and hide the size of a goose egg. I would say that we all over estimate the amount of powder it takes to get the job done. I've been guilty myself. Get to a decently potent charge and then adjust for accuracy. Don't take any "slop shots". :m2c:

 

[Deerstalker]

Try laying a big piece of white paper in front of the rifle when shooting on the range, and see how much black stuff falls on it when you shoot... I'd bet there will be some unburned powder with some of the higher loads. I would pick a range that was close to my maximum effective range, start with a light load and work up until the accuracy gets there... then stop. No sense in just wasting powder. My daughter ( 8 years old at the time) killed a 140 pound buck with 50 grains of ffg pyrodex behind a patched round ball 2 years ago. She was hunting with a CVA 50 cal.youth model percussion gun, and with that rifle and that load, she is spot on at 70 yards with the adjustable sight flat on the barrel. Getting her sighted in was a real lesson in ballistics for me. The barrel length is prbably 24 inches or so, and I believe it is a 1/48 twist. Very good little rifle for kids to shoot and hunt with. A good friend of mine, who is also a very good BP shooter, turned me on to looking at lower powder charges. I can tell you that at 20-25 yards, that deer my daughter killed folded up and fell. Plenty of knockdown for me.
Bryan :results: :m2c:

 

[Rebel]

The black you find over snow or white paper is burned powder residue and not unburned powder. Unless you have a VERY short barrel and a VERY heavy charge, all of the powder is going to burn in the barrel. The checking for unburned powder over white is another old wives tale like you can't get good accuracy with rd balls with a barrel with a 1-48" twist.

 

Thanks guys for all of the advise. I am VERY happy with my "pet load"! My gun shots it great and I an very confident that this will put ant deer down at the ranges I plan on hunting max will be 70 yards but this would be only on a perfect shot. I will mostly keep my shots around 45 50 yards. I have plenty of deer around where I hunt so I can wait for these type of shots!

Good luck to ya KOZ! :front:

 

[GregC]

Roundball's advice has always been 100% accurate as far as I am concerned.

He has helped me greatly.

 

[danlwhite]

Using a wad is a new idea to me! after all these years shooting these things, I never thought of it and never heard of it. I stopped at 85g of 3F in my 54, cause it seemed to eat that better...but now I think I might try that wad idea. Thanks, Roundball, for something I didn't know about til now. :thanks:

 

[roundball]

Using a wad is a new idea to me! after all these years shooting these things, I never thought of it and never heard of it. I stopped at 85g of 3F in my 54, cause it seemed to eat that better...but now I think I might try that wad idea. Thanks, Roundball, for something I didn't know about til now. :thanks:

I have become a real believer in them for the benefit of a firewall, improved gas sealing they provide, and extra lube they put into the bore...so much so, I even use the next larger caliber size wads to get an even tighter seal:
.62's in a .58, .58's in a .54, .54's in a .50, .50's in a .45.

Then when you pick a pillow ticking patch up off the range, they still look store bought new the wad protects them so well...and the edges of the wads look like miniature gears, with alternating marks around the edges from the lands & grooves...where the pressure squeezed them out into the grooves...don't need them for light weekend target loads of course, but I use them for all hunting loads.

 

[Wehrmacht]

You will find that most competition chunkgun shooters who consistantly are in the top shooters circle will use an Ox-Yoke Wonderwad between the powder and a patched round ball.These definately have a positive effect on accuracy, but in a follow-up shot/hunting situation the extra effort probably isn't worth it.

I use 72gr of 3f in my .50cal and successfully knock down deer and bear with no trouble.This charge with the patch/ball/lube combination that I use produces a very tight group at 50 yards.At 78 gr,which I use in my .50cal chunkgun,my "goto" hunting rifle opens up significantly,just as it will if I drop much below 70gr.

 

[roundball]

You will find that most competition chunkgun shooters who consistantly are in the top shooters circle will use an Ox-Yoke Wonderwad between the powder and a patched round ball.These definately have a positive effect on accuracy, but in a follow-up shot/hunting situation the extra effort probably isn't worth it.

I use 72gr of 3f in my .50cal and successfully knock down deer and bear with no trouble.This charge with the patch/ball/lube combination that I use produces a very tight group at 50 yards.At 78 gr,which I use in my .50cal chunkgun,my "goto" hunting rifle opens up significantly,just as it will if I drop much below 70gr.

No, there's no problem with follow-up shots...used oxyoke wonderwads in hunting loads for 15+ years...I probably average 10-15 minutes time to completely clean, dry, lube, and reload my rifle before I move away from the stand...

 

[Wehrmacht]

Ox-Yoke Originals,Inc.is no longer in business.Aparently the company is bankrupt.I just called the Milo,Maine office and the phone has been disconnected.I've fired off an email to[url] GunAccessories.com[/url] trying to locate Wonder-Wads in .40cal and await a reply.

Roundball,or anyone else,do you know of a source or a substitute?

der Forster

 

[roundball]

Ox-Yoke Originals,Inc.is no longer in business.Aparently the company is bankrupt.I just called the Milo,Maine office and the phone has been disconnected.I've fired off an email to[url] GunAccessories.com[/url] trying to locate Wonder-Wads in .40cal and await a reply.

Roundball,or anyone else,do you know of a source or a substitute?
der Forster

I see/hear coments that they're being bought out and by year's end product is supposed to be flowing again, but you know how reliable 5th hand information can be.

I don't know of a 'mother lode' or anything...I had plenty of wads as I only use them for hunting loads, however, I did stock up on a few thousand TC prelubed pillow ticking patches that I like...you'll just have to start hitting the various BP suppliers and see what they have left...ie: the advertiser at the top of this Forum may still have some.

FWIW, I always use the next larger caliber size wad for a tighter fit, so if you stumble across any .45cals, they should do fine in your .40cal the same way.

Often, the DRY precut patches are more apt to be available than the pre-lubed patches, and I recently ran some tests using "Hoppe's No9 PLUS BP Solvent & Cleaning Solution" on them...fantastic results, and I'm picky...so I have 1500 dry TC pillow ticking patches on their way that I got for a steal on auction.

Also FYI...worse case, a pair of pillow ticking patches lubed with natural Lube 1000, seated down on the powder together as a set before a patched ball is seated normally, seems as effective as a wad when I've experimented with them at the range.

 

[Al Bateman 1]

I understand that RMC bought out, and will be sell their (Ox Yoke) products under the Ox Yoke name.

http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm
AL

 

[roundball]

IMO, I think a lot of things RMC carries are a little overpriced...it'll be interesting to see how they price the oxyoke wads if they do carry them...

 

[rhwestfall]

tried Mid-South yesterday - they are "out".

BobW