8yr Old Shooting My .54 - Minimum Powder Charge?

[ChrisHarris]

I'm wanting to take my 8yr old son shooting. He's 4'7" tall and weighs 81 lbs. The rifle is a TC Hawken with a .54 barrel. This is his first time firing a weapon of any sort. I don't want to hurt him.

What is the MINIMUM 2F or 3F powder charge that would send a ball out the end of the barrel? We'll be shooting 10yds, maybe 25yds.

I don't care that we won't be using the optimum 60gr charges. I don't care about accuracy. I just want to make sure the ball LEAVES THE BARREL.

I'm thinking 20gr of 2F would do it. :idunno:

Thanks

 

[rabjr]

As heavy as that gun is, I would think cutting your charge in half, 30gr of 2F would be a piece of cake for him. I would try a load first and see.

 

[roundball]

That's what I would think, 20-25grns...and 2F if you have it instead of 3F...just enough to bloop it out of the barrel.

2-3 layers of a folded hand towel draped down over his shoulder/chest/arm pocket would be good too as a safeguard against him mis-positioning that crescent butt plate.

 

[ChrisHarris]

That's what I would think, 20-25grns...and 2F if you have it instead of 3F...just enough to bloop it out of the barrel.

2-3 layers of a folded hand towel draped down over his shoulder/chest/arm pocket would be good too as a safeguard against him mis-positioning that crescent butt plate.

Thank you guys. I bringing a couple hand towels and some drying towels just for that reason. He's got 2 shirts on and it's raiing like crazy, so we'll be wearing coats.

Will let ya know how he did after we return.
:thumbsup:

Edit:
I have 2F and 3F -- will use the 2F today.

Thanks again

 

[B.Habermehl]

I agree, 20 to 30 gr of ffg. Remember that t/c barrels have a powder chamber at the breech end that needs to be filled for optimum ignition. Recoil should not be a problem up to 35 gr at least. For youth field days I use 35 gr of powder, But our minimum ages are 11. I used a youth field day to break in my barrel in my .58 cal English rifle, 35 gr of ffg. There was no complaints from the kids. I tested it with a couple of ladys before the kids shot it with no objections. So I believe that your son will have no discomfort with any load up to 35 gr. BJH

 

[wattlebuster]

Chris these two bad hombre's love to shoot the 2 54's that they are holding. They are 6 an 8 an I load 25 gr of ffg with patched roundball. No recoil an it goes bang an smokes and thats all they are after anyway since the guns are too long for them. But they like it an will run ya out of powder and ball if ya let em

 

[David W.]

What I want to see is a video of them loading those rifles. :haha:

Well, Davy Crocket cilled a bar when he was only three.

How about shortening the bag strap, especially for the littlest tyke? Fine looking boys, by the way. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

"...these two bad hombre's love to shoot the 2 54's that they are holding. They are 6 an 8 an I load 25 gr of ffg with patched roundball. No recoil an it goes bang an smokes and thats all they are after anyway since the guns are too long for them. But they like it an will run ya out of powder and ball if ya let em..."

Great photo !

 

[wattlebuster]

These boys have watched me so much that they both can load as good as I can. I started them out by letting them point to what goes where and next. They have to stand on a chair to load, its funny to watch. The only thing they cant do is see me open my safe. That way they cant see the combination plus my safe also has a protected padlock.

 

[mooman76]

It only takes a few grains to send it out the barrel. Of coarse it won't do much but ever forget to load powder before the patched ball. Just remove the nipple and put in a few grains and it will push it out. Try the 20-30gr and go up or down from there til you find what you want.

 

[Rifleman1776]

As others have said, only a few grains needed to bloop the ball out of the barrel.
Whatever you use make sure they wear some kind of hearing protection. Protect the hearing and start a good habit.
Great looking kids. Congrats on yer attitude with the young'ns.

 

[wattlebuster]

Like Rifleman said Chris MAKE them wear hearing protection. Dont give them a choice. My grandboys KNOW that no earplugs no shooting. I had a hard time finding any earmuffs that will fit them but the plugs do pretty good so thats what they wear an they also wear their sunglasses too. I think wearing the safty plugs and glasses will help alot in them not developing a flinch habit

 

[Frank Savage]

I wouldn´t be so much shy about the load. The first few shots, 30 grs OK-just not to scare him. 50 to 60 grns afterwards. Guns are powerful, let him know how much. And poor accuracy performance from too low speed will kill any interest quickly.

In his age, I was given to fire 1863 Springfield few times (@65 grns of 3F and 500 grs of minie). Sure as hell, a man was prepared to catch either me and the gun. Since the advice given mentioned something about kicking like a mule, I was willing to stand my ground-and standed, because that gun is heavy enought to absorb much recoil (well, muzzle lift is other thing, but 60°are still OK). All shots were on paper of standard 50 m pistol target at 50 m. Sure he can do that also, the small kids can be surprisingly tough when they want to be "adult"...

Earmuffs-search "3M Peltor Kids earmuffs". The only real kids earmuffs I have seen so far. Paintjob may be needed, the pink is terrible and the fluo green as well. Otherwise, the smallest and densest foam earplugs is the way. The silicone type with three "hats" won´t fit into kid´s ear without too much of discomfort. But once again-after becoming a bit familiar, let him few shots without the muffs/earplugs. Just to hear the power. 3/4 service load, naked ears and "Now here´s my sharpest axe and try to chop the 12" oak block you just pierced a hole throuh so easily." will make more awarenes and common sense in young boy´s head about power of a gun and safety needed than any lenght of the best imaginable speech.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm thinking 20gr of 2F would do it.

We shoot the heck out of ours with 30 grains of 3f Goex. I always worry about air space if a patent breech isn't filled with powder to the base of a ball, so I quit there. I've gone as low as 10 grains of 3f under a ball in a flat-breeched 54 and you definitely wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of the ball.

BTW- That 30 grain 3f charge is snakebite accurate. Our granddaughter has been shooting it since she was 6, so recoil is not an issue. In her case, and probably for your son, muzzleweight will be a huge issue and require a rest of some sort. Our granddaughter is 12 now and passionately in love with our Pedersoli 50 cal Frontier Carbine. Same 30 grain powder charge, but the gun is light enough she carries and shoots it as well as a 22.

 

[roundball]

First, everyone needs to do what they're comfortable with...only offering a couple pieces of info in case its of any value:

1) I have the spare breechplugs from some converted T/C Hawken caplocks to flintlocks...the powder chamber in the Patent Breeches average 18grns 2F / 3F.

2) My personal belief that there is no barrel obstruction worry at those extremely low powder charges as there isn't enough powder to develop any pressure to speak of.

For example, for the occasional dry-ball over the years, I've simply removed the vent liner, actuated the 3grn plunger dispenser of 4F into the chamber several times, replaced the liner and blooped the balls out...probably only averaged 15grns 4F doing that and the balls were not seated on that powder of course...they were up on top of the Patent Breech powder chamber.

But bottom line, anyone should only do what they're comfortable with.

 

[BrownBear]

First, everyone needs to do what they're comfortable with...only offering a couple pieces of info in case its of any value:

1) I have the spare breechplugs from some converted T/C Hawken caplocks to flintlocks...the powder chamber in the Patent Breeches average 18grns 2F / 3F.

2) My personal belief that there is no barrel obstruction worry at those extremely low powder charges as there isn't enough powder to develop any pressure to speak of.

For example, for the occasional dry-ball over the years, I've simply removed the vent liner, actuated the 3grn plunger dispenser of 4F into the chamber several times, replaced the liner and blooped the balls out...probably only averaged 15grns 4F doing that and the balls were not seated on that powder of course...they were up on top of the Patent Breech powder chamber.

But bottom line, anyone should only do what they're comfortable with.

Yup, but the air space still puts little creepy crawlies on the back of my neck. Of course, if the Alaska prices on powder keep going north, I may do battle with the little boogers. :wink:

 

[ChrisHarris]

I apologize, I did not point out in my first post - the barrel is a .54 Green Mountain drop-in.

He's a good shot. I think he did pretty good most of the time. He just gets a little 'greedy' with the triggers and can't remember to keep his fingers away from them until he's ready to shoot. We didn't have any close calls or near misses.

I'm sure there were several safety violations that could be pointed out. It was his first time ever shooting a real weapon of any kind. I probably could have left the camera home and just worked on basic fundementals with him. But you never get a 2nd chance to film his first experiences. :idunno:

We started out with 20gr 2F. We shot 20gr for about 5 or 6 shots and I asked him if he wanted to try 30grs. He was fine with 30grs for about 5 shots. We moved up to 40grs. He was fine with 40gr for about 3 shots and then he forgot to pull the rifle in tight and his shoulder got slapped. He wanted to go back down to 30gr after that. We shot 30gr the rest of the afternoon.

I can post a video if you guys would like to see him shooting.

 

[ChrisHarris]

I did have him wearing ear plugs and safety glases the entire time. It only takes one loud noise to do hearing damage that is permanent. I've struggled with hearing problems my entire life, so it's important that my kids ears are well protected. I wouldn't dream of taking either of them to a shooting range without protection.

 

[ChrisHarris]

 

[gearheart]

Awesome. :hatsoff: