A little too much off the top...

[fpatton]

Well, I've discovered a disadvantage of a partially inletted lock mortise. (I'm sure I'm not the only beginner to learn this the hard way - I think I saw a post here on this topic, but sadly didn't pay enough attention.)

I've been working on inletting the breech plug and tang on my TotW Kentucky pistol and realized that the inletting for the tang was too wide. I couldn't figure out why because I had been very careful. Then I realized that it's because when I'm holding the stock in the vise, there's not really any material in the lock area to keep the vise from squeezing the breech area closed a bit. So everything's fine when it's in the vise, but when I pull it out, the inletting is too wide by probably 0.5mm on each side.

So the big question is, should I shim it, fill the whole mortise and start again, or just leave it?

Side question - the stock is getting pretty grimey with inletting black. I'm pretty sure it will get sanded off the outer surfaces okay, but what about on the vertical areas where the barrel is inlet? I don't really want to sand anything away because then I'll be opening up the inletting.

Thanks!

Fred

 

[Roy]

Can you take some pictures of the problem area? in and out of the vice would be good. :thumbsup:

Probably using a bit too much inletting black :haha: but yes it should sand/scrape off with no problems..

 

[Roy]

I am just a bit confused by your description is all.. and pictures would help. I can't decide if you mean squeezing with the vice down on the barrel or from squeezing on the lock panels towards the barrel?

 

[hawkeye2]

You could do a brass inlay on each side of the tang to cover this. In this case possibly a piece of brass edge up and soldered to each side of the tang would work and might look interesting without being overly obvious.

 

[Pete G]

Staining and finish will swell the inlet a bit. Might be enough if the gap isn't much more than the thickness of a sheet of notepaper. You could also peen the tang and make it a little bit wider then file back to shape.

 

[50cal.cliff]

I am just a bit confused by your description is all.. and pictures would help. I can't decide if you mean squeezing with the vice down on the barrel or from squeezing on the lock panels towards the barrel?

Roy, sounds like he was squeezing the stock, like Grandpappy use to hang onto his jug he called squeezins, a little tooooooo tight! :rotf: :rotf:

So when he lets the vice's pressure off the now tight tang has a gap!! :shocked2:

I am guessing you can't put that much pressure on the stock, so what you are saying is a gap, may more on the small side.

You have already got a few suggestions, here is another and I have done this before and done properly no one will really know!

After finish a mix of sawdust from the stock sanding a little pitch and mix into a paste. If you are not above adding a drop or two of epoxy it will help all bond.

Coat the tang or metal part with the area of offense with a little vaseline, (now by coat I do not mean pack it like a wheel bearing, coat means the entire surface that the mix will be against has been touched with vaseline)!

Pack the area of crack and buff off most of the excess. This is why I said after finish, the finish protects this mix from soaking into the surrounding area!


The remainder should dry hard and the coat of vaseline should keep it from adhering to the part!
If you keep an eye on the mix there will be a time when it is dry enough to buff a little more until the area comes down flush and nothing is left except the appearance of a darker line along side of the part and won't even be noticeable unless you are looking for it! :blah:

Most of the time this line will stay but occassionally may have to be re-done as the filler is so thin, that is why I like to add a little epoxy! :hmm:

 

[ZUG]

Since you are talking about 0.016" (.5mm) on each side of the tang I would take a block or smoothing plane that has a very sharp blade and get your self a piece of maple (Southern Lumber in San Jose) shave off a thin curl of wood and glue it to both sides of the inlet using a wood glue (Titebond works good). Then fit your tang but don't squeeze the stock too hard this time :v .

 

[Roy]

That is a hell of a squeeze :haha: ... I would wait to see what it does with lock and lock bolts in place and tightened.. once again pictures would help

 

[shguns]

What Zug said.
In addition, consider staining the thin wood to a color close to what you intend to finish the stock before you glue it in.

 

[Zonie]

I like your brass shim idea.

Soldering a thin strip of brass on both sides of the tang to fill the gaps is a creative approach to the problem.

I learned long ago that often, making a mistake look like a planned feature not only covers up the error but adds to the finished look.

The two soldered on brass shims would have to extend for the full length of the tang to look right.

 

[fpatton]

Here's a picture of the gap. I rechecked and I decided that while the vice did affect the final inletting of the barrel, it didn't have anything to do with the tang. So, that's all on me!



I like wood shaving idea, and the brass shim as well. I think the wood is the best bet in this case.

Fred

 

[Zonie]

One potential problem with installing a thin piece of maple on each side for you to consider.

Being a blond wood, most maple stocks are darkened with one form or another of stain.

While the added pieces of maple would absorb the stain, often, the glued bond line will not.

Some glues are worse than others but I have yet to see one that stains easily.

Obviously, if the glue line doesn't accept the stain, it can come out lighter than the wood on either side of it.

One way to get around this is to use a water color paint but getting that to blend in also has its risks.

Another way of reducing the gap would be to widen the tang by lightly tapping it with a hard hammer to swage the metal out along the edge.

That would require filing off any of the damage on the top surface but it could be done.

 

[Roy]

Well that area is always a pain, don't feel too bad about it .. I would continue building, then make the repair after you have it closer to final finished shape.. I think it will tell you more about how to go about fixing it a little farther down the road.

And it does look like you might be using a tad too much lamp black.. a little bit goes a long way. More is not always better..

I repaired a gun once that was chipped out behind the tang (barrel not inlet properly) by finding a piece of matching wood. I made it to a beaver tail shape and inletted it to the stock so it appeared to be just carving..

 

[MSW]

OK - now I understand after seeing the picture ... brass shims - yes ... it will look way cool, and as though you meant that ...

good luck with your project!

 

[50cal.cliff]

And it does look like you might be using a tad too much lamp black.. a little bit goes a long way. More is not always better..

:hmm: :idunno: :rotf: :stir:

 

[fpatton]

Yep, the inletting black does seem to get everywhere! When inletting the barrel, I was trying to figure out how much to use and I know I used too much. With the tang, I tried to keep it to a very thin layer, only repainting as it transferred to the wood. Still, I end up with a lot of black in areas where the metal and wood shouldn't be touching.

Last night I inletted the lock plate, and it was much better, so I think I'm getting the hang of it.

Fred

 

[Roy]

:thumbsup:

 

[Roy]

I tend to use a candle or lamp for blacking.. Usually one blackening will do the entire inlet by using a soft bristle tooth brush and a few drops of 3in1 oil.

I have had people in my shop that think they have to dip back in the lamp black or hold over the lamp every time instead of redistributing what they already have on the part.. :v

 

[fpatton]

Well, I would give the bottom of the tang a light brush of the black, set it in the mortise and give it a few light taps with the plastic hammer. When I would pull the tang back out, wherever the black was on the wood, it wasn't on the tang, so I figured I need to brush it back on in that spot.

I may give the candle technique a try.

Fred

 

[Zonie]

IMO, the candle and oil lamp method of blackening a part is traditional. That's about all I can say good about the process.

Burning my fingers on a blackened part, adding heat inside a house I'm trying to cool and possibly setting the house on fire don't offset the simplicity of using factory made inletting black.

I use a small paint brush made for painting models with just enough inletting black on it to apply a almost dry coating.

On the positive side using these inletting black's, they use very little oil in them so the oil really doesn't penetrate the wood very deep.

It is easily sanded off when the time to think about finishing the stock arrives.