Absolute newbie, wondering which rifle to start out with?

[bobznew]

Hello all,

This is my first post on this forum. I have never owned a blackpowder rife before, and I am interested in getting one for deer hunting. I have hunted a long time with other games, on many different types of game, but never with a M/L. I am definitely desiring an old-fashioned, "traditional" M/L, instead of the new-fangled synthetic, stainless, "In-Line" pieces that I see on all the hunting videos.

My question is: I'm looking around for good quality manufacturers of M/L's. I would like a nice gun for whitetail deer hunting exclusively, and I would be willing to pay up to $600-$700 for one, if needs be.

Any suggestions about where I might start looking? Any and all help would be most appreciated. Thanks! - Bob

 

[d.thomson]

I would recomend a Thompson/Center renagade or "hawken" in .54 they have a lifelong garentee even if you are not the original owner. Next would be a Great Plains Rifle by Lyman again in .54. The Thompson has a 1/48 twist good for both Conicals and Patched Round Ball, the Lyman is a 1/60 twist preaty well a Patched Round ball gun(PRB). hope this helps you out. Oh welcome to the forum lots of good Info here. P.S. I would start out with a percusion cap gun and move to zFlint later on, but that is just my 2 cents. Others may disagree with what I have said but thats the way it goes . Regards Fisher King

 

[ssettle]

You might want to concider looking at the Track of the Wolf web sight to get alook at some of the gun styles they have to offer. Some are pretty pricy but no harm in looking. It will give you some idea what is out there. T/C is a very good value and so is Lyman, I'd stay away from other production rifles if you want something dependable. IMO both T/C and Lyman can't be beat short of a custom gun. Good Luck and keep posting questions on This web sight and you'll get all the infor you'll ever need.Ssettle

 

[PreglerD]

Welcome to the forum from Germany!

So I would recommend a Lyman GPR in .54. You can choose the rifle-version, which has a PRB-twist, works also with maxiballs or you choose the hunter.version which has a conical-twist. Best thing is to buy the two or one and a change barrel. The GPR is a straight shooter. Because of the best prices you have to search arround a bit.

I like this forum and can it recommend best to all newbies. You learn a lot hear.

Regards Kirrmeister

 

[B.Habermehl]

This might ruffle a few feathers but... Stay away from any gun made in Spain or Italy. With the only exception being Lyman. After being around this hobby since 1977 I've seen a bunch of poor quality stuff from these sources. That being said, T/C and Lyman are the best of the factory made guns. For abit more money there is Tennassee Valley MFG. TVM Mat and Tony Avance are nice people to do buisness with. You will be able to get a nice quality gun from them. BJH

 

[PreglerD]

Habermehl, you cannot compare the guns from Spain and Italy from the 70's, 80's and 90's with the guns from today. Especially Investarm/Lyman, Pedesoli and also Ardesa/Traditions make meanwhile excellent ML. I own a GPR and a trade rifle from Lyman and a Traditions Deerhunter. they are well done and straight shooters.

 

[RC]

question??? how long afore this new to blackpowder,wants it just fer deer season gets HOOKED? lyman or t/c best bets...fer now...till yer hooked...then..hehehehe! WELCOME TO THE FORUM! :thumbsup: RC

 

[silverfox]

Looking like you are getting very good advise so far. In your price range you should be able to pick a very good rifle. Just remember with a ML rifle you will need and extra $100 set aside for everything you will need to shoot and clean your rifle and to carry everything you need into the field with you. Its a great sport and as a hunter you will find a whole new world out there when you carry a ML.
Have you checked the classified there were some nice looking rifles there the last couple weeks.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[romeoh]

Kirrmeister is right.
With a GPR you can´t do very much wrong. It´s "only" factory-made but you get a lot for the $.
In your price range you could also afford a pedersoli rocky mountain hawken. A good gun too, a bit more closer to the old originals in a few details.
I´ll soon be owning both. I already got a pedersoli and now ordered a GPR flinter a few days ago...
TVM is also a good tip I guess, they build up fine guns for a small money as far as I know from this forum. I wouldn´t say it´s impossible that I will never have a TVM too. If the right one passes by at Track of the Wolf or so - who knows. :hmm:

Kirrmeister is also absolutly right in recommending this forum.
I´ve already been hanging around in other forums - especially in germany - for a while before finding this place here.
You´ll have a hard job if you want to find a forum with so many very friendly guys with that much knowledge about ML´s :thumbsup:

Greetings

 

[smokehouseman]

Welcome to the forum! You'll find this site interesting, entertaining and informative.

I humble recommendation is the Lyman GPR .54 caliber and Thompson/Center .50. Don't jump too fast into all the extras until you have a chance to get a feel of things. Get out on the range, try different guns, powders, equipment and methods, etc., talk to other shooters, and ask a lot of questions.

Again welcome and good luck :thumbsup: !

 

[davy]

A much as I like my flinter .. the advice to get a percussion gun first is probably sound ... its simply easier to deal with .. and with blackpowder guns thats a fair issue.

Also try to stick with real blackpowder (which is what you should only use in a flint gun for sure) and which may affect your gun "type" purchese.

Percussion is a little more forgiving of powder type, so if all you could get is synthetic powder then by all means use it ... but it comes in second to the real stuff ... real BP is best for all ... hands down!

Davy

 

[J.D.]

Mr. Habermehl is right on. I've seen screw holes, and axle holes drilled as much as 10 degrees off perpendicular. That doesn't sound like much, but it sure does affect the speed, smoothness, and efficiency of a lock.

Even Italian cartridge guns made within the last few years suffer from holes drilled off.

Moreover, the locks on the high end Italian guns used for long range ML matches need serious work to get them ready for competition.

The Spanish and Italian guns work, but they don't work right. That's why L&R can make enough profit to justify producing replacement locks for guns made in those countries. They must sell a ton of those replacement locks to justify the expense of producing them.

I have caught a lot of heat for saying this, but it is true, even though most folks prefer to remain in denial. Anyone who raves about the quality of Italian guns has never owned, or shot a quailty gun and simply doesn't know the difference. Folks simply can't understand what they don't know.

A couple of good semi-custom makers were mentioned above, I would like to add Early Rusctic to the list of affordable, quality ML guns.
[url] http://www.earlyrusticarms.com/pricesanddescriptions.htm[/url]

Tip Curtis might have something you like too.
Tip Curtis Frontier Shop, PO Box 203, Cross Plains, TN. (615-654-4445)

J.D.

 

[bobznew]

Wow, I really appreciate all the advice that everyone's given! That's a lot of good info to get started with. Like I said, I am almost a complete novice in the blackpowder world, having spent my entire life fooling with modern bolt-action rifles. Until I came to this website, the only thing I knew about muzzleloaders was the difference b/w a flintlock and a percussion. I have learned much already since coming to this site. I can tell that I will learn a lot here, and I know that I will make a better decision on what to purchase based on all your help. Thanks again, and I look forward to hanging around you all and learning more about M/L's.

 

[spitpatch]

I have to agree with most of the guys the lyman GPR is a great gun for the money. I have both a 50 and a 54. I would recommend the 1/60 twist for round ball. Many of the clubs that hold shoots that is what you have to shoot. In your price range you could pick up a nice custom gun if you take your time. Don't rush.

 

[AeroncaTAL]

Welcome to the forum! I built a Lyman Great Plains rifle in .54 and I love it. Thompson/Center is also a good choice. If you don't mind a used gun look around. I just picked up a used TC Hawken I found in a pawn shop. My son took it to the range, bench shot it and got a grouping 1 1/2 inches from center at 50 yds. Can't beat that...
Scott

 

[skeet]

Hello Bobznew,
Welcome to the forum, it's an excellent place to learn from.
The guns mentioned are very good deer guns and you will be most happy/productive buying one.
I'll rock the boat a lil bit and suggest a reproduction 1858 2 band Enfield(Civil War gun). They are 58 caliber and very effective on deer. I have used one for the last 3 years and will never need another deer gun. Mine is a Euroarms (made in Italy) and shot to the left out of the box. I had the rear sight moved to the right and basically anything under 175 yards is dead meat. (I haven't range fired any farther than that, yet)
The gun has virtually no recoil and doesn't need a lot of powder for a punch.
Just another idea. Good luck in your search and next deer season!
Skeet

 

[Rat Trapper]

I would recommend the Thompson Center Hawken in either 50 or 54 cal. If you plan to shoot patched round balls the 54 cal would be best choice. TC has the best service of any company out there bar none. I would also recommend you look around at the libary for books on muzzle loaders. The more you read up on this new hobby at the begining the less problems you will have once you get your rifle. Another advantage of studying up, is you may advoid buying things you will later find you don't need. If you plan to hunt with conical bullets I would also recommend you try the Hornady great plains bullets. They have worked very well for me and others. Ask questions here, you will get all the help we can provide.

 

[Hamourkiller]

If you are looking for brand new, caplock or flintlock, I would go to Fox Ridge[url] http://www.foxridgeoutfitters.com/subsubsection.cfm?section=7&subsection=34,39[/url]

They are the custom shop for Thompson Center, call and order a Hawken or Renegade with a .54 cal Roundball barrel. Request no QLA (Should not be one on a RB barrel but ask just to be sure)

I would also order in some 3f and 2f real black powder from a company like Powder Inc[url] http://www.powderinc.com/[/url]

This is not the only company to order from, just the one I have used and had great results from.
Goex is running 11.75 / pound with a 25 or 50 pound order
KIK is running 10.30 / pound with a 25 / 50 pound order.
They will sell in 5 pound lots but price / pound is greater.
Check your state laws on how much you are allowed to keep on hand, Federal laws state 50LB limit.

Enjoy your new sport and have Fun!

 

[Fullstock58]

My pick would be this:[url] http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=13405[/url]
The only thing I would do to it is brown the steel parts :grin: I don't like blue on BP guns.

Next would be the Lyman Great Plains in 54cal 1st choice 50cal 2nd.

TC also makes a very reliable BP gun, I just don't care for the compromise 1-48 twist as I only shoot round balls.

 

[sidelock]

If you are looking for a deer rifle only, or possibly some target work, there is no way you could do better than a T/C Hawken .45 Flint or cap. If you might go for bigger game later a .50 or .54 would be advised. I use my T/C .50 for every thing. Good luck. :hatsoff: