Advertised case hardening on BP revolvers

[denster]

I mostly agree with this post but I have used both large bubbles and the fish bubbler and have gotten better results with the fish tank bubbler as it seems to get more dissolved oxygen into the water with its tiny bubble generation which is why it is good for fish in tanks.

Did you get a good color on your fish? Sorry couldn't resist!

Nothing wrong with the fish tank bubbler it's all a matter of taste.

 

[M. De Land]

I mostly agree with this post but I have used both large bubbles and the fish bubbler and have gotten better results with the fish tank bubbler as it seems to get more dissolved oxygen into the water with its tiny bubble generation which is why it is good for fish in tanks.

One more item I have wondered about when having to redo a receiver or some other part is the necessity to anneal before another cycle is initiated as a separate step. Annealing is not necessary to remove the color and carbon infusion depth remains unchanged so why anneal in a separate step ? My guess is the reason for the separate annealing step is for the re-polish of the metal surface but the glass beading I prefer negates the need for a re-polish of the surface. The heat up for a new evolution runs the part through the annealing heat stage anyway and it does so in an airless charcoal packed environment.
I have not encountered any down side to "not" annealing in a separate operation .

 

[M. De Land]

Did you get a good color on your fish? Sorry couldn't resist!

Nothing wrong with the fish tank bubbler it's all a matter of taste.

That's funny now that you mention it as well aireated fish do have better, more healthy color ! I guess it works on both !

 

[M. De Land]

One more item I have wondered about when having to redo a receiver or some other part is the necessity to anneal before another cycle is initiated as a separate step. Annealing is not necessary to remove the color and carbon infusion depth remains unchanged so why anneal in a separate step ? My guess is the reason for the separate annealing step is for the re-polish of the metal surface but the glass beading I prefer negates the need for a re-polish of the surface. The heat up for a new evolution runs the part through the annealing heat stage anyway and it does so in an airless charcoal packed environment.
I have not encountered any down side to "not" annealing in a separate operation .

I need to get going in the shop as I have a barrel to straighten and draw file before Niedner rust bluing. I still don't like to rust blue but sure like the results !

 

[Tenring]

My uncle used a few pieces of pipe with a bazillion 1/16” holes drilled in them hooked to a hose then hooked to a small compressor with some sort of home made mitigator / regulator for the amount of air bubbles. and he would use wire to hold and separate the parts in the steel box. He is long since past away but he was one smart guy when it came to all kinds of things, like I was saying in my last post I was a teenager then and I really wished I would have paid more attention to some of the things he used to build instead of chasing girls. Kids OH Well…

 

[M. De Land]

My uncle used a few pieces of pipe with a bazillion 1/16” holes drilled in them hooked to a hose then hooked to a small compressor with some sort of home made mitigator / regulator for the amount of air bubbles. and he would use wire to hold and separate the parts in the steel box. He is long since past away but he was one smart guy when it came to all kinds of things, like I was saying in my last post I was a teenager then and I really wished I would have paid more attention to some of the things he used to build instead of chasing girls. Kids OH Well…

Yes, I do the same thing using black wire to attach shielding and to keep parts individually suspended in both charcoal and in the quench.

 

[Whitworth]

My uncle used a few pieces of pipe with a bazillion 1/16” holes drilled in them hooked to a hose then hooked to a small compressor with some sort of home made mitigator / regulator for the amount of air bubbles. and he would use wire to hold and separate the parts in the steel box. He is long since past away but he was one smart guy when it came to all kinds of things, like I was saying in my last post I was a teenager then and I really wished I would have paid more attention to some of the things he used to build instead of chasing girls. Kids OH Well…

Amen brother, a lesson we realize too late.

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

If this site isn't careful, PETA will shut it down.

They frown on beating horses.

Especially dead ones.

It's just too much. I need a refresh

 

[William Schenck]

If you want to know just about everything about color casehardening go to the marlin owners forum. There used to be an extremely long detailed thread about the subject. There was some fantastic photos. Maybe it is still there.…hope so.

it‘s marlin collectors forum. there is some stuff about color case hardening but I couldn’t find the thread I mentioned.

 

[M. De Land]

If you want to know just about everything about color casehardening go to the marlin owners forum. There used to be an extremely long detailed thread about the subject. There was some fantastic photos. Maybe it is still there.…hope so.

it‘s marlin collectors forum. there is some stuff about color case hardening but I couldn’t find the thread I mentioned.

Yes, I've seen it and there are some spectacular case color photos on it ! These are the colors one can get at quite low temperatures in the low 1300s but I am not sure about depth and strength. Remember case hardening is primarily about strength and gorgeous color is of secondary importance. The object in my mind is to get the best of both worlds and not compromise either.
A for instance is Mauser rifle actions that are case hardened at over 1500 degrees F. and quenched in oil for a case depth I have read of about .012 on average which is two or three times the depth of what is occurring on low pressure actions getting nice color in a water drop quench.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

No need for a compresor to air blast. High pressure water jet(mains pressure) from a foot or so above the quenching tank. Hanging a garden riddle just shy of the bottom of the tank saves emptying it ever time you quench. Be earth friendly SAVE WATER!!
If you want a Deep case, Gas Carburizing is the way to go. Long expenation So reads up about it..

 

[M. De Land]

No need for a compresor to air blast. High pressure water jet(mains pressure) from a foot or so above the quenching tank. Hanging a garden riddle just shy of the bottom of the tank saves emptying it ever time you quench. Be earth friendly SAVE WATER!!
If you want a Deep case, Gas Carburizing is the way to go. Long expenation So reads up about it..

I've heard of it but have no knowledge or experience with the process, I wonder if the process has any application for color though along with adequate strength and wear resistance provided by the charcoal method?
I have an elevated screen in the bottom of my quench tank to catch the parts.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Gas Carburizing has no relavese to colour hardening as the parts need case refining (re heating) before quenh. Before re-quensh, polish with 800/100 grit and water quensh in airated water tank,,
Just as an aside I'm told old rural black-smiths would keep a tank of Entire Horse urine as a quensh for an extra hard finish on gun and other high wear parts.The resulting colour was much deeper with blues and purples. High Nitrogen.??.O.D.

 

[M. De Land]

Gas Carburizing has no relavese to colour hardening as the parts need case refining (re heating) before quenh. Before re-quensh, polish with 800/100 grit and water quensh in airated water tank,,
Just as an aside I'm told old rural black-smiths would keep a tank of Entire Horse urine as a quensh for an extra hard finish on gun and other high wear parts.The resulting colour was much deeper with blues and purples. High Nitrogen.??.O.D. I

I bet red hot steel quenched in horse piss made an odoriferous environment for a spell !" WHAT IS THAT SMELL"?

 

[springfield art]

If the mfgrs. turned out a product 100% perfect in finish and mechanicals the pistols would cost a grand or more, instead of the 300-400 or so we can actually afford to buy.

 

[M. De Land]

If the mfgrs. turned out a product 100% perfect in finish and mechanicals the pistols would cost a grand or more, instead of the 300-400 or so we can actually afford to buy.

Yeah, every thing is present in these reproduction guns to make near perfect ,custom grade , target quality revolvers ,with some know how and elbow grease with the added benefit of modern steel alloy strengths.
I was just thinking last night that I have never in my life bought a gun of any kind that I was completely satisfied with and so got some schooling and machining training to find out how to make what I wanted.
Gun school is great to learn concepts and particulars but like a man once told me about learning to weld"Son you can go to school from now on but the facts are your going to have to burn up some steel to really learn how to weld"! Same is true in spades when it comes to gun work!

 

[GYJ]

I was just thinking last night that I have never in my life bought a gun of any kind that I was completely satisfied with and so got some schooling and machining training to find out how to make what I wanted.

IMHO, the more you shoot and the more you learn, the more you realize how unsatisfied you are with most guns as they come from the factory.

 

[M. De Land]

IMHO, the more you shoot and the more you learn, the more you realize how unsatisfied you are with most guns as they come from the factory.

True Story!

 

[LRB]

So, no quench on the color case hardening? Just a heat treat?

Iron or steel has to be quenched in order to get the case colors. Color casing requires a slightly different process and lower heat than case hardening only for wear although it also hardens. Not all know this, but all locks imported from Europe/England were of case hardened iron by guild rules so that they would resist wear. Those locks made by smiths here in America were also cased if they were of good quality, but NOT color cased. Cased for wear concerns rather than cosmetics. Color casing would have been somewhat rare before the 19th c., although possible. All the parts including the plates were cased and then cleaned and polished. If you see a period lock with engraving, it was done before case hardening, or annealed after being cased, engraved, and then re-hardened.

 

[LRB]

Temp depends on the steel and the carbon present.

It's hot. Need heat to get the molecules in the steel dancing.

1,600 to 1,800 more or less.

There are no molecules in steel. It is a crystal structure.