Advice needed: Using FFg powder in a revolver

[Flash Pan Dan]

You may find that your pistol shoots better with 2Fg. My Pietta NMA revolvers sure did. I had right around 600 rounds through them and shooting about 2 ½ inch groups at 25 yards from a rest, and happy to do so, when I started using 2Fg. I went from shooting 28 grs. of Schuetzen black powder to 35 grs of 2Fg Schuetzen brand black powder and my groups shrank to 1 ¾ and smaller. Also the recoil was softer.

I now have about 1500 rounds through the pistols and they are still shooting as well. Never going back to 3Fg in these pistols.

 

[pmburk59]

Oops, my goof, the container of Triple 7 FFg does not have R/S on it.
I only want to use a load to allow me to shoot at least 25 yards. Again, I am new to all this so I am relying everyone's expertise here.

Are you in reference to Triple 7? That powder is a bit stronger than black powder, so bump it up if you want, but don't expect good accuracy. Triple 7 shouldn't be compressed too much either.

If you're only target shooting, why do you want potent loads?

Hello,
I am new to this forum and new to black powder revolver shooting. I have a .44 cal Pieta 1858 New Army revolver. My wife gave it to me this past Christmas.

My father-in-law switched from loose powder to pellets in his in-line muzzle loader and gave me almost a full container of Hodgdon FFg powder. I have searched this forum and the Internet for information on using the FFg in my revolver and I have not been able to track down such information. I hope I can safely use it; if so, how many grains should I use so I can safely shoot a target 25-50 yards. I would appreciate any help or information fellow forum members can provide.
Thank you,
Patrick

 

[pmburk59]

You're absolutely right, the Triple 7 does not have RS on it. I got things confused.

What load volume do you use for your Pieta with FFg? That way I can get a general idea at least to start with safely.

Thank you for the advice on the tepid water, hot water will wash away the oils.

If the can says “RS” than you have Pyrodex and not Triple 7 powder. Make sure you measure by volume and not by weight. Suggested loads are given in volume equivalent to real black powder.

I’ve been using 2Fg loads of real black powder in my Piettas for CAS for awhile. They are very accurate and shoot softer than using 3Fg. I don’t know if you will have the same experience using the substitute powders.

By the way, you can skip the hot water for cleaning it does nothing good and can do some bad stuff when used in a revolver. I clean my pistols a lot and I use tepid water. Depending on how compulsive you are about using a lot of hot water and soap to clean your pistol, you might end up with rust on the inside of the frame because the hot water just stripped out all the lubricant out of the moving parts.

If you continue to use black powder substitutes make sure you clean thoroughly. The substitutes are not as forgiving as real black powder on haphazard cleaning.

 

[Clovis]

Did not know Hodgden made or sold black powder, interesting and thanks for that, I can learn new things (keep repeating)...
As to the original poster, if you have triple 7, I have never used it at all and can not be of much assistance in helping with a load. Perhaps someone who does have experience with 777 will chime in soon. Take care :hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

Triple 7 is more powerful per grain than regular black powder or Pyrodex.

For a good shooting load of it you probably should use somewhere between 22 and 24 grains per chamber.

Using a maximum chamber load of Triple 7 probably won't cause any harm to the gun or you but usually maximum loads shoot rather poorly.

Go for a 22 grain load and have some fun.

 

[Billnpatti]

Blow out the rinse water with compressed air and then spray it with a good dose of WD-40. Blow out the WD-40 with compressed air and it should be nice and clean. As an alternative to washing the frame with soapy water, is to use automobile brake cleaner spray to spray it clean. Be sure to remove the grips before spraying it with the brake cleaner or you could damage the finish on the grips. After spraying it real well with the brake cleaner, scrub it with an old toothbrush and spray again. Then blow it out with compressed air, spray it with WD-40, blow it out again and it shold be nice and clean and ready to have the grips replaced. If you don't have an air compressor, you can buy canned compressed air at most any camera shop or in the electronics area at Wal-Mart.

 

[swathdiver]

Black powder also stinks, but no where near as bad as them fake powders.

I love the smell of black powder in the morning! It smells like... Victory!

:thumbsup:

 

[pmburk59]

Thank you. I am looking forward to shooting the revolver.

I'll keep you and everyone posted on how things went.

Triple 7 is more powerful per grain than regular black powder or Pyrodex.

For a good shooting load of it you probably should use somewhere between 22 and 24 grains per chamber.

Using a maximum chamber load of Triple 7 probably won't cause any harm to the gun or you but usually maximum loads shoot rather poorly.

Go for a 22 grain load and have some fun.

 

[pmburk59]

What about using the Remington's Remdrilube instead of the WD-40? I use it on my other firearms.

I am seriously thinking already about making a pair of grips just for the challenge. I'll use the current grips as my patterns and model and when it's time to replace the grips, they are ready to go. I always look for woodworking projects. I have some nice Iron wood that I plan to use.

Blow out the rinse water with compressed air and then spray it with a good dose of WD-40. Blow out the WD-40 with compressed air and it should be nice and clean. As an alternative to washing the frame with soapy water, is to use automobile brake cleaner spray to spray it clean. Be sure to remove the grips before spraying it with the brake cleaner or you could damage the finish on the grips. After spraying it real well with the brake cleaner, scrub it with an old toothbrush and spray again. Then blow it out with compressed air, spray it with WD-40, blow it out again and it shold be nice and clean and ready to have the grips replaced. If you don't have an air compressor, you can buy canned compressed air at most any camera shop or in the electronics area at Wal-Mart.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I see this thread has drifted from the basic question.
Yes, you can use 2Fg but not as happily as 3Fg. It will give less performance and be dirtier. If that is all you have do use it.
But 3Fg is the ideal for what you have in mind.

 

[pmburk59]

If I can acquire FFFg powder before I go out to fire the revolver, I'll use that and save the FFg for a muzzleloading rifle.

I see this thread has drifted from the basic question.
Yes, you can use 2Fg but not as happily as 3Fg. It will give less performance and be dirtier. If that is all you have do use it.
But 3Fg is the ideal for what you have in mind.

 

[pmburk59]

Hi,
Been away from the forum and I'm back with a little follow-up. I was able to purchase some GOEX FFFg and I went to the range this past Saturday.
I used 27grains of powder for a range of 15 yards with excellent results. Shot 30 rounds for a great day of shooting. I love my 1858 New Army and I had a great time shooting it. The GOEX cleaned up pretty well.
I'll stop here because if I go any further, I'll be off topic.
Thanks again to all who chimed in with their assistance. See you around the forum!
Patrick

 

[bpd303]

Clovis,
It's a steel frame revolver. It has a strap over the cylinder. I read the manual that came with the gun as well as watching You Tube videos. I have a flask, wads, balls, measure, #10 caps, and now the powder. I have the wads that have bore butter on them to prevent the chambers from cross firing. All I need to do is get out to the range.

Sounds like you are pretty well set. Chain firing (cross fires) are usually caused by loose caps.

Which brings me to the reference of using WD-40 on revolvers.

If you use it make sure that it is completely removed and what ever you do DO NOT spray it on the revolver to loosen up fowling while you are shooting it.

My brother used to spray WD-40 to soften the fowling and make the cylinder easier to turn. Guess what about the second time he did that...yep a chain fire, all six cylinders went off. Fortunately he did not loose any body parts and the sturdy Remington suffered no damage but he did have to go and change his shorts.

 

[Dphar]

Thank you for your reply/advice. My manual called for 25 grains, should I bump it up to something like 28-30?
Thank you again!

First I always loaded enough powder to bring the ball to the front of the Cyl.
Many brass suppository revolvers like 45 colt shoot best with FF.

FF will reduce velocity other than that it should be OK.

Dan

 

[M. De Land]

The trouble with these procedures is not one of fouling removal but rather of proper re-lubing of internal parts. WD-40 is a really lousy gun lube and it's penetrating properties slowly dissolves/removes bluing over time.
There are a couple of parts on all revolvers that require a bit of gun grease and not just oil for proper lubing. The bolt arm and hammer cam is one area and the ratchet/star face is the other. Some like it on arbors but I still use oil on mine. MD

 

[M. De Land]

I'm not sure I could get 2F grains in the chamber of the .36! Be like loading powder pellets! :rotf:

 

[TFoley]

Triple 7 is more powerful per grain than regular black powder or Pyrodex.

For a good shooting load of it you probably should use somewhere between 22 and 24 grains per chamber.

Using a maximum chamber load of Triple 7 probably won't cause any harm to the gun or you but usually maximum loads shoot rather poorly.

Go for a 22 grain load and have some fun.

A while back I tried all three propellants on the range at 25m. Having already settled on 30gr BY WEIGHT of FFFg in my Ruger Old Army, I took my time and learnt that 24-25gr BY WEIGHT of Pyrodex P and 23gr BY WEIGHT of Triple 7 shot in the same place. I then tried the Pyrodex Select grade, and that was 24gr BY WEIGHT the same result.

BP, of course, smells like the real stuff that it is, Pyrodex is a tad odd, and Triple 7 smells like a fire in a sugar beet processing factory, and leaves your shooting hand kind of sticky after a few shots.

As most of us have decided, there is nothing like the real thing except the real thing. Pity it's getting so hard to find.

tac

 

[pmburk59]

Have you tried Goex? It's the only one I have had experience with and even though I haven't tried anything else; I like the performance. It was sticky almost like caramelized sugar, but the Wonder Lube cleaning products cut through it. I was very lucky to acquire 2 pounds of it at a local gun shop.

 

[Billnpatti]

Just use the same loads of 2f that you would of 3f. You may notice a bit of a difference in the POI and you will most likely notice that the 2f results in more fouling than 3f. Go ahead and use it as long as you have it but when it is gone, I'd go back to 3f if it were me.

 

[pmburk59]

You make a good point. However, I plan to save the 2f for when I get a percussion muzzleloading rifle.