Alaskan Brown Bear.

[cynthialee]

I lived in AK for 10 years. I had forgotten about the weather and terrain...
Hunting brown bear IN ALASKA with traditional hunting weapons!?!?
No.

 

[M. De Land]

I'm reminded of what Jack O'Connor had to say about brown and grizzly bear having hunted all over the world.
He said Lions are supposed to be such a fearsome and tough foe and they are but in a Brown bear you have an animal that is every bit as fast, fearless, smart and well equipped with tooth and claw, the clench-er is they often weigh over twice as much. Mike D.

 

[kkmemmott]

Thank you all for the great advice. That is what I was looking for. I have heard of the crazy weather that can occur up there and that would put a big damper on the flintlock. Excellent point! I had forgotten about that. I am, however puzzled at why hunting a brown bear with a muzzleloader is such tabboo and hunting one with a bow is not. I have seen several advertisements of guides showing brown bear killed with a bow. I have talked to Mr. Chuck Adams,(a well known bow hunter)about his 10 1/2 foot Brown Bear he shot several years ago. It was at a distance of 12 yards. The bear went 30 yards and fell over dead.
I watched a video of Fred Bear shooting a Brown Bear with his recurve bow only a few yards form where he stood. The bear went down the beach a little ways and fell over dead. I absolutely understand that Big brown bear are very dangerous and can kill a person with one swipe of those big claws and eat you for lunch. I know that following a wounded bear into the alders is not a good thing and should be avoided if possible. But even with a modern high powered rifle, that does not assure that the bear will go down on the spot. I realize you may have more shots at a quicker pace, and that is a definate advantage. However, I have a hard time believing that an almost 700 grain hardened ball driven at around 1500 fps. would not put a world of hurt on a big brown bear similar to a 460 Weatherby Magnum. If the bear does not go down, then I would give him 5 shots from a 475 Linebaugh with 420 grain flat nose bullets that have already proven themselves on large brown bear and bigger game. In addition, My guide would have a backup rifle appropriate for the situation. The 10 bore has killed African elephants that are 10 times the size of brown bear and could stomp you into the ground if not put down quickly. Reading your posts have caused me to rethink my pursuit of the awesome brown bear. I do not want to put myself or any guide in a life threatening situation reguardless of the weapon I choose. The great cost is also a big factor. Thank you again for all the great comments to my question. Please forgive me if I offended anyone with my comments, that was never intended.

Kent.

 

[Dphar]

Thank you all for the great advice. That is what I was looking for. I have heard of the crazy weather that can occur up there and that would put a big damper on the flintlock. Excellent point! I had forgotten about that. I am, however puzzled at why hunting a brown bear with a muzzleloader is such tabboo and hunting one with a bow is not.
Kent.

Make a good gun cover. Weather can get crazy anywhere and does.
Powder can be transported in brass cartridges. With a bullet seated well out a 45-70 will hold 70 grains. Get to camp pull the bullets and use the powder as its needed. PITA but it would work and would let you move a pound of powder or so.
Why would someone guide an archer and not a ML? Beats me.
Probably a lack of understanding. Read too many gunwriters waxing eloquent on the failings of the RB who knows. They KNOW people kill them with bows but they have not seen one shot with a ML I guess.
If you want to shoot one with a ML do your research, build a rifle, buy a case of powder and shoot it a lot. Then start looking for a guide. Or look first.

Dan

 

[M. De Land]

A couple of points come to my mind that would seem to be relevant when comparing a bow with a ML.
With a bow there is no loud noise,shock and smoke plum to scare and excite the animal. Most I have seen shot with an arrow on film just take off in the opposite direction. They don't seem to associate the prick of an arrow as a threat from what I have seen. Also, reloading is many times faster with a bow and there are no flash in the pans or hang fires to deal with.
Guides don't like following up wounded bears any better than any one else because sooner or later if you have to do it enough your going to get hurt!
Any bear big or small will redefine speed for you if you have never seen one in high gear! They can hit 30 to 35 Mph in about three bounds and I ain't BS'n yawl!
I have encountered quite a few over the years and mostly they will just leave you alone if you do the same but step in between a sow and cubs or and old grumpy boar and you have "real trouble" and that very quickly! They do not like surprises! MD

 

[rodwha]

I was talking to a woman who had gone on a missionary trip to Alaska. She mentioned the little bi of training given in case you have a problem with a bear while out there. What she mentioned was the typical roll up and cover your head if it's a grizzly, but to run like hell if it's a black bear as they are much lower on the food chain there, and are more aggressive because of this.

I find it strikingly different from the lower 48 as I've always heard you fight back if attacked. I know running from a bear is nonsense.

I'm guessing black bears up there are more carnivorous then down here?

 

[BrownBear]

I am, however puzzled at why hunting a brown bear with a muzzleloader is such tabboo and hunting one with a bow is not.

I've seen maybe half a dozen vids of guys taking browns with a bow. I don't need to describe the action, but it's worth turning the sound up and listening close. Here's what you hear, kind of as one continuous sound:

"ThwangBOOMBOOMBOOM! Great shot! Never seen an arrow kill a bear so fast!"

That's in the case of a hunter with a guide and two packers, all armed with large guns. You can hardly hear a break between the sound of the bow and the boom of all three big guns. If I was a guide I'd be doing the same- sticking bullet holes through them as fast as possible after the arrow, just to keep from wading into the alders chasing a bear with a stick in his side.

You find a guide that will take you out on a muzzleloader hunt, and I bet the sounds are real similar:

"BamBOOMBOOMBOOM. Great shot! Never knew a round ball could kill a bear so fast!"

Check yourself in the mirror afterward and see if you're going to tell anyone about those "follow-up" shots and how fast they came. Archers seem to leave out that little detail when they go home with their trophy stories. Will a muzzleloader be any different?

I'll add one more point from the guide buds and shut up. Think about that big cloud of white smoke right between you and a PO'ed bear that needs another whapping..... They don't even want to think about it.

 

[Elkeater]

 

[okawbow]

Several really big brown bears have been killed by bowhunters with traditional equipment and no back-up. There's a famous film of Art Young, back in the 1920's, killing 3 grizzlys with a wooden longbow. He simply walked right into them while they were feeding, and started flinging arrows. He had no one backing him up. The bears attacked each other, when hit by the arrows.

 

[BrownBear]

Several really big brown bears have been killed by bowhunters with traditional equipment and no back-up. There's a famous film of Art Young, back in the 1920's, killing 3 grizzlys with a wooden longbow. He simply walked right into them while they were feeding, and started flinging arrows. He had no one backing him up. The bears attacked each other, when hit by the arrows.

Explain Art Young to the $30,000 guide you're required to hire and see what he has to say about it all. And don't let the door hit your backside! :rotf:

 

[kkmemmott]

You make an excellent point Brownbear! Thanks for the info. As I said before, I am rethinking my persuit of the great brown bear. I have a great respect for it and maybe it is best I leave it alone. It is sad that some hunters have to rehash their hunting stories to make it sound good. unfortunately, I believe your scenerio about the bow and the muzzleloader holds all too true to high powered rifle hunters as well. I personally have know problem with a guide shooting if they deam the situation threatening. In fact, I would hope they would. I for one would not want to tangle with an angry bear, because I would lose. I personally think the reason many of the guides are so cautious is not just because the brown bear is a dangerous animal, but that they have seen far to many hunters that have not taken the time to study the animal they are after and what is the best shot possible in different situations and angles. Also the thing that I find very disturbing, which I'm sure gives the guides gray hair, is that a lot of hunters don't take the time to get to know their rifles, bows or muzzleloaders. They don't spend time at the range developing loads or arrow consistency. And once a load is found, I believe time in the field is an absolute must before going after any game animal. I believe the hunter owes that to the animal to make a quick, deadly, killing first shot. How the animal reacts to that 1st shot is going to be different every time. It may go down on the spot, or it may run off. If you know that shot was deadly, it won't go far. In the case of the brown bear that short distance could be deadly for both bear and the hunter. In this situation I would hope the guide would exercise extreme caution. Nothing wrong with that. Reguardless of what weapon you choose, this holds true for all dangerous game. Thanks again,
Kent.

 

[BrownBear]

I was gonna shut up, but I'll add one more thing before doing so and quit this thread.

Got a PM from a member here regarding the Art Young "incident" and how different things are today.

I responded with the following, which pretty well summarizes the modern reality. The guides have a lot to lose if they get out of line, but it's not all roses even when you mix unguided Alaska resident hunters with bears. Bear hunting is not a bad thing, unless you let it get away from you. And if you don't do your job, or the guide doesn't do his job, it most assuredly can get out of hand:

No kidding! I could just see the look on the face of a guide as he listened to that story! The guide licensing board up here, not to mention the game wardens, would take great pleasure in revoking a guide's license, seizing airplanes, guns and boats, assessing megabuck fines and supervising prison time for any guide that "sponsored" such an event.

We live over 30 miles from town with major salmon streams a mile on either side of us, and the bears to go with them. We get them right in our yard sometimes, and even had them try to climb into the corrals after our horses once.

Now and then we have a problem with unguided Alaska resident hunters wounding a bear nearby, then "having to catch a plane" without pursuing and dispatching it. They usually wait a day or two after they get home even to report it, if they ever get around to it. Mix a wounded bear into your neighborhood with families, lone kids, pets and livestock, and folks tend to get a little testy.

I'm all for professional guides with lots of incentives not to screw up!

 

[kkmemmott]

I agree!!!

 

[Spikebuck]

I don't know anything about Brown Bear hunting, but is Russia an alternative? Not sure a guide there would be any more willing to do a BP hunt, but prices are much less (

 

[stinkyfeet]

I would go after then with the 54 or 58 no questions asked. Think or it this way how many has old Fred Bear killed with a trusted long bow at distances much closer than need for a BP rifle. Sure shot selection and a back up weapon would be required for safety but most Alaskan Guides I have talked to carry a 45-70 lever action guide gun with around a 500-600 grain buffalo bullet. I would recommend a maxi or a buffalo bullet and a much stiffer load down the barrel but I am not scared..

 

[jamesthomas]

Really?? You would go after a Brown Bear with .54 or .58 cal.? Sure its o.k. if the guides hit it 3 times right after you shoot, or are you gonna crawl after it by yerself into the thick stuff? And I apologize if I sound sarcastic because you've mentioned your background. But I kinda find it hard to believe.

 

[Spikebuck]

how many has old Fred Bear killed with a trusted long bow at distances much closer than need for a BP rifle.

While not a Brown Bear, I heard via people that knew him personally, that Fred's first two or three Polar Bears were put down with the backup rifles when they charged after being hit. So no doubt that bears can and will charge on occasion.

That said, I wonder how many Brown or Grizzly Bears charge firearms (or bow) hunters when hit. Definitely no personal experience, but are the claims of charging bears being overstated here? I don't doubt that if one was wounded and laying up in the thick stuff that a charge would be highly probable when one stumbles on it at close range. I'm asking about at the time of the shot...and let's assume a high-quality shot in the vitals.

 

[hornetk4]

what about old Ben Lilly he was supposed to have killed brown bears with a butchers knife, says he would walk up to em an stickum wilst they was sleepin.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Yes I honestly would while I have no experience hunting grizzly bears I have seen them up close while fishing and hunting caribou. I would not hesitate to take my Kodiak 58 double and chase them down. And I personally would be upset that a guide shot the grizzly after I made a lethal shot on him unless he was charging. But after talking with the guide he states the grizzly bears will charge but that its like a hog it happens but its not the norm. I have hunted hogs all over the south and have had them scatter when shot at and run towards me in a manner to get away but have never been stared down and charged. YES they are not 1000 lbs or more. I mean lets be real here a 58 caliber warren bullet weighs 600 grains 600 hundred, put 120 grains of 2f or more under it at 40-50 yards that's alotta kenetic energy. I haven't run the ballistics but that's gotta be very close to what the guides run in their back up 45-70's. Yes, they can reload faster. Of all the grizzly hunts I have ever seen only one bear charged the hunters and that was a Bob Foulkrod bow hunt and the guide shot it and killed it dead with one 45-70 bullet while charging to the head using a 500 grain lead buffalo bullet @ 1625 fps. So to me the ballistics are very close. And I would have a back-up shot just in case with the other barrel. Or how many people on here have shot a buffalo with a prb on this forum, they average from 700-2200 lbs and they will charge as well but no ones scared to go after them. All I am saying is when you look at it from a Kenetic energy stand point then it makes sense I would do it no doubt about it.

 

[stinkyfeet]

I have shot 6 black bears and not one has charged they run away when hit not stick around and risk another hit. We have tracked poorly hit bears bear my buddies have hit, and in the thick brush its spooky following blood with a bow in hand I won't lie. However Moose, bears, hogs, mountain lions, heck even deer have been known to attack here in north America. I am positively 100 percent certain there is no animal on North America that cannot be taken cleanly with one shot with a 54 or especially a 58 caliber when loaded properly for the hunt.