All of this misinformation is really getting old

[vintovka]

"cap and ball" is annoying and inherently dangerous if used as a loading procedure

 

[Newtire]

it sounds like in his own mind he has shot for 20 years, maybe an alternate reality ??

About the same thing as "an alternate truth". Got to let them spin down & then wait to see how they tell the story next time. It's kind of fun, in an alternative fun kind of way. Got to go sort out my sock drawer...later!

 

[LME]

I own/ operate a muzzleloader shop outside of Pinedale Wyoming. I spend a ton of time hearing about the “proper way of things”, believe me! It sometimes makes for a very long day

I have used my muzzle loading rifles a long time. I have always cleaned it the same way every time with no problems until I started trying some of the ways other people cleaned theirs. I regret changeing and almost ruined my barrel. I know a lot about rifles mostly modern ones but I have helped friends fix their muzzle loading rifles. I have found that the more I have learned the more there is to learn and to be careful about new ideas. They may do more harm than good.

 

[Dave Fox]

Speaking with one of my customers the other day about black powder hunting and told him I just picked up a .54 Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. He starts in with "why a 54? You only need a 45!" and then goes into "make sure you season the bore, you can't use any oils in the bore, use boiling hot water to clean it, that gun will kick like a mule", on and on. Every time I tried to explain why that is all myths and old wives tales, he gets very defensive and tells me he has been shooting black powder over 20 years. I told him I have been shooting BP since I was 16, I'm 54 now and have learned very much about it. He seemed to calm down. Then he tells me "your best load will be to put the ball in your palm and cover it with powder. Whatever that weight of powder is, just keep shooting that weight". I almost laughed in his face. I asked him if he ever heard of working up a load for a gun. He says "Oh yah, I do it all the time!". I said "OK, I need to go to lunch now." I've never seen so much misunderstanding in any topic. Yes, it's probably inexperienced shooters but the sayings get passed around so much they become convoluted. It's hard to take when they want to argue the point because they believe it so much.

When Lincoln was out testing a Spencer rifle with its inventor, an obviously knowledgeable bystander was heard to remark: "a good rifle gun should recoil forward...."

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Think I'm the only BP shooter at our range so nobody else has much to say, they might notice that I'm there 4 hours and only shoot 10 times....haha

 

[springfield art]

Of all the relatively debatable statements, this is one of the least totally bogus. While not necessarily the most optimum load, the powder over the ball in your palm will be a usable load.

It is also interesting in that most of those statements do not address the conditions and purpose for which the rifle is to be used.

Boiling hot water will clean the black powder fouling, but so will tepid tap water with a squirt of dish washing detergent.

"Seasoning" the bore is totally useless.

Avoiding petroleum based oils is another myth. We use WD40, Rem oil, Ballistol, Barricade, EEZOX, RIG and a host of other oils. I get the same crusty ring with Ballistol and water for a patch lube as I get with bee's wax and olive oil.

How much powder one loads with and ball or conical will determine how hard the rifle kicks.

Hearing tales such as your customer is spouting can be quite humorous and falls into the out of context thread.

I have read, though, that back in the olden times, that was an accepted practice.

 

[springfield art]

Of all the relatively debatable statements, this is one of the least totally bogus. While not necessarily the most optimum load, the powder over the ball in your palm will be a usable load.

It is also interesting in that most of those statements do not address the conditions and purpose for which the rifle is to be used.

Boiling hot water will clean the black powder fouling, but so will tepid tap water with a squirt of dish washing detergent.

"Seasoning" the bore is totally useless.

Avoiding petroleum based oils is another myth. We use WD40, Rem oil, Ballistol, Barricade, EEZOX, RIG and a host of other oils. I get the same crusty ring with Ballistol and water for a patch lube as I get with bee's wax and olive oil.

How much powder one loads with and ball or conical will determine how hard the rifle kicks.

Hearing tales such as your customer is spouting can be quite humorous and falls into the out of context thread.

The volume of powder varying upon size & depth of palm, how "flat" guy holds it, etc. The powder measure was a big leap in technology, if you take all that into account.!

 

[mooman76]

The internet is a good source for passing information. Unfortunately it passes on bogus information as well as the good.

 

[Bad Karma]

Speaking with one of my customers the other day about black powder hunting and told him I just picked up a .54 Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. He starts in with "why a 54? You only need a 45!" and then goes into "make sure you season the bore, you can't use any oils in the bore, use boiling hot water to clean it, that gun will kick like a mule", on and on. Every time I tried to explain why that is all myths and old wives tales, he gets very defensive and tells me he has been shooting black powder over 20 years. I told him I have been shooting BP since I was 16, I'm 54 now and have learned very much about it. He seemed to calm down. Then he tells me "your best load will be to put the ball in your palm and cover it with powder. Whatever that weight of powder is, just keep shooting that weight". I almost laughed in his face. I asked him if he ever heard of working up a load for a gun. He says "Oh yah, I do it all the time!". I said "OK, I need to go to lunch now." I've never seen so much misunderstanding in any topic. Yes, it's probably inexperienced shooters but the sayings get passed around so much they become convoluted. It's hard to take when they want to argue the point because they believe it so much.

I once hired a truck driver who went on and on about his 15 years of experience. We went for a test drive, gear grinding, afraid of the Jake Brake, tailgating other vehicles. I finally asked him if he had 15 years experience or one year repeated 15 times...

 

[OhioHawkeye]

................It's hard to take when they want to argue the point because they believe it so much.

Yea, I know. and it is usually the ones that it's just a hobby and though they've been 'shooting' for 20 or 30 years, Their actual time total at it on and off range is more like 6 months. I've virtually been breathing black powder since 1983, and know I still have a lot to learn.

 

[vintovka]

I believe the "bean scene" from the movie "Blazing Saddles" was based on the average rendezvous campfires after a long day of breathing black powder smoke. (Well at least it smells that way)

 

[Bad Karma]

When Lincoln was out testing a Spencer rifle with its inventor, an obviously knowledgeable bystander was heard to remark: "a good rifle gun should recoil forward...."

After an afternoon of 500 grain bullets over 80 grains 2f in an 8# rifle I would pay good money for one of those “good rifle guns”...

 

[OhioHawkeye]

......... I have always cleaned it the same way every time with no problems until I started trying some of the ways other people cleaned theirs. I regret changeing and almost ruined my barrel. I..... I have found that the more I have learned the more there is to learn and to be careful about new ideas. They may do more harm than good.

I hear you. I ruined the finish on 3 good hand-built, not kit built rifles by using the recommended 'Moose Milk' recipes touted as the only thing to use by many. (alcohol, windex, murphy's and combinations amounting to the same) Stripped the finish off in streaks and bleached the wood. Then there's the boiling water crowd... If they would only think about what that does.....to each their own though. I use potable water. As long it isn't so hot I burn myself or so cold it is solid, it will work.

A friend loaned me some Ballistol and it seemed to protect the wood as well as being an excellent cleaner and protector for steel...Over the years, two of the three guns you now have to look hard to see the damage from the moose milk. The third you can only see because of the bleaching of the wood. I ended up becoming a dealer of it in 2006 because it was so hard to get then. I still carry it, though don't sell online anymore. People want free shipping, yet complain about a high price of product, or the added price of shipping of smaller volumes. I'll be glad when this free shipping fad passes and folks return to their senses.

 

[William Lincoln]

Remember that this is a sport like fishing. Now tell me, how often does a person say
how "small,weak and minnow-like" his fish was? Big Fish stories. In truth, a lot of these
folks have been shooting muzzle loaders for years -off and on- usually. Everybody has
their own take on things. I have two ears and one mouth. So I enjoy listening and reading
and I have gained a lot of knowledge- about half gained from actual experience. But a
huge part of what I know I have gained from reading from my collection of Books and
Old West documents AND from forums like this. I listen to all these Fine Sportsmen and
Ladies- BUT WHAT I KNOW -I KNOW FROM DOING -I COMMENT AND IF I THINK IT
MAY CAUSE AN ARGUMENT OR ILL FEELINGS --I STAND PAT. Life's too short for Stress.

 

[ML48]

No joke! At the end of the day today I had a guy bring in a .45 cappy with a whole tube sock and a .22 cal aluminum cleaning rod with some huge bronze brush broken off down the barrel! Said that’s how he always cleaned it! I almost ran out into traffic but there wasn’t any!!

Naw...you should have sent him out in to the traffic....old saying "you can't fix stupid".

 

[ML48]

I hear you. I ruined the finish on 3 good hand-built, not kit built rifles by using the recommended 'Moose Milk' recipes touted as the only thing to use by many. (alcohol, windex, murphy's and combinations amounting to the same) Stripped the finish off in streaks and bleached the wood. Then there's the boiling water crowd... If they would only think about what that does.....to each their own though. I use potable water. As long it isn't so hot I burn myself or so cold it is solid, it will work.

A friend loaned me some Ballistol and it seemed to protect the wood as well as being an excellent cleaner and protector for steel...Over the years, two of the three guns you now have to look hard to see the damage from the moose milk. The third you can only see because of the bleaching of the wood. I ended up becoming a dealer of it in 2006 because it was so hard to get then. I still carry it, though don't sell online anymore. People want free shipping, yet complain about a high price of product, or the added price of shipping of smaller volumes. I'll be glad when this free shipping fad passes and folks return to their senses.

Half of the folks in this great Country "NEVER" had any sense.

 

[bigstick6017555]

I hear you. I ruined the finish on 3 good hand-built, not kit built rifles by using the recommended 'Moose Milk' recipes touted as the only thing to use by many. (alcohol, windex, murphy's and combinations amounting to the same) Stripped the finish off in streaks and bleached the wood. Then there's the boiling water crowd... If they would only think about what that does.....to each their own though. I use potable water. As long it isn't so hot I burn myself or so cold it is solid, it will work.

A friend loaned me some Ballistol and it seemed to protect the wood as well as being an excellent cleaner and protector for steel...Over the years, two of the three guns you now have to look hard to see the damage from the moose milk. The third you can only see because of the bleaching of the wood. I ended up becoming a dealer of it in 2006 because it was so hard to get then. I still carry it, though don't sell online anymore. People want free shipping, yet complain about a high price of product, or the added price of shipping of smaller volumes. I'll be glad when this free shipping fad passes and folks return to their senses.

what does boiling water do to my barrel ??? other than some minor flash rust

 

[TexiKan]

The first time I walked into a monthly club shoot at our range I encountered one of our founding club members who proceeded to tell me the "cover the ball with powder in the palm of your hand" story. What? Now I will admit I was somewhat of a newbie to black powder shooting but why do that when I had a powder measure? That was around 1975 or 76 and I have yet to see anybody use that method.

Reminds me of all the times one hears about using a shard of glass to scrape a powder horn, too.

Ha! And we thought stitch counters knew it all!

 

[jimairwin]

Speaking with one of my customers the other day about black powder hunting and told him I just picked up a .54 Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. He starts in with "why a 54? You only need a 45!" and then goes into "make sure you season the bore, you can't use any oils in the bore, use boiling hot water to clean it, that gun will kick like a mule", on and on. Every time I tried to explain why that is all myths and old wives tales, he gets very defensive and tells me he has been shooting black powder over 20 years. I told him I have been shooting BP since I was 16, I'm 54 now and have learned very much about it. He seemed to calm down. Then he tells me "your best load will be to put the ball in your palm and cover it with powder. Whatever that weight of powder is, just keep shooting that weight". I almost laughed in his face. I asked him if he ever heard of working up a load for a gun. He says "Oh yah, I do it all the time!". I said "OK, I need to go to lunch now." I've never seen so much misunderstanding in any topic. Yes, it's probably inexperienced shooters but the sayings get passed around so much they become convoluted. It's hard to take when they want to argue the point because they believe it so much.

"It ain't what you know that hurts ya; it's what ya know that ain't so."

 

[jimairwin]

The first time I walked into a monthly club shoot at our range I encountered one of our founding club members who proceeded to tell me the "cover the ball with powder in the palm of your hand" story. What? Now I will admit I was somewhat of a newbie to black powder shooting but why do that when I had a powder measure? That was around 1975 or 76 and I have yet to see anybody use that method.

Reminds me of all the times one hears about using a shard of glass to scrape a powder horn, too.

Ha! And we thought stitch counters knew it all!

Such was published in Dixie gun works catalog as an old-timer's starting point for working up to the right load. I never tried it myself. 100 grains GOEX 2f always did the job in my 54 GR Douglas barreled Hawken at longer distances. For targets I used lighter loads for each shorter distance.