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"alternative fiber" tarps

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bnail

54 Cal.
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Does anyone have any experience with Linen or hemp tarps?
I found a site that's selling hemp canvas. it's 18.50 a yard, and 58" wide, so it'll cost a bit over $100.00 just for the material. However, if the material is naturally water repellant, then I figure the cost is worth it for a good tarp. I'd love a linen tarp, but haven't seen bulk heavyweight linen.
 
Yeah, hemp is some nice stuff to have from what I've heard. Karl Koster, who does a Great Lakes impression and works and lives at Grand Portage, has a lot of documentation on its use up there. I've seen it on a few trade lists for the RMFT, too. One reference mentions it being treated with ox blood.

I'll be ordering some before too long, and hand sewing a wedge tent or a 10x10 lean-to. I'd rather camp when its cold. It just makes a fire worh having.

Post some pics when you get it made.

Good luck!

Pare-
 
Hemp is not naturally water repellant. It will still require treatment.

It did back then and it still does today.

No one cares if one's tent is made from hemp, lenin or cotton canvas as long as the fabric is a natural fiber.

The fabric used for the shelter is not a major issue at any site I have ever worked.

Style of the shelter is the main concern.

Buy a $40 painter's tarp and use the money you save to buy a pair if hemp or lenin pants.

Chances are, unless you wear a sign that says "these pants are hemp!" you will be the only one that knows.

Well worn, stained and faded cotton canvas is accepted everywhere for both tents and pants.

The only thing I am going to pay $18 a yard for is a good gun barrel!

:front:
 
Yeah Ghost, I'm inclined to agree with you. However. . . I was thinking that Flax, being the source for linseed oil, might have weter-shedding :thumbsup:properties not present in Cotton canvas. I have my painters tarp already, and am quite happy with it. but the purist in me would surely love to have a "period fabric" over my head at least once.
 
Hemp makes a fine material, and is very well documented as being used. Un-treated it doesn't wick like cotton or linen. If you have ever seen a hemp fabric tent in camp it stands out among the cotton canvas really nice. If you just want to be accepted go for the cotton , if you really want something to be proud of and show a sense of historical authenticity go with the hemp. Linen is the next best thing,if your really on a budget find a linen sheet with a high thread count and make something work out of it. Although cotton is accepted, ask yourself if you just want to be accepted or take it more serious?
 
If you are that serious you will not have a tarp to start with or if you do it will be parked alongside the packhorse you led into camp!

I camp alongside some of the most serious reenactors in the nation, at seriously jurried and invitation only events at historic sites all over the eastern US, and they are not worried about having to use hemp to be accepted!

:crackup:

It's your money! Go for it! Just don't be suprised when no one notices, or cares.
 
:crackup:

It's your money! Go for it! Just don't be suprised when no one notices, or cares.
Oh Now Ghost you know they don't call those folks "Button Counters" for nothin'. I guarentee you some would notice, and out of those who do, ther'll be some counting threads!
Remember there's a sect out there arguing long staple verses short staple, and Georgia verses Egyptian Cotton, yeh, someone would notice.
:peace:
 
Geez ghost...did he step on your toes or something? If someone wants to spend their money on hemp, that's their business. If they want to have a dwelling as period correct as they can get, then they have that right to. But you seem to have a problem with it.

I've read a few of your posts, and they are almost always about being period correct. And that's cool. But, when someone tries to better themselves or happens to provide a better source of documentation, you can't seem to stand it. In fact one time you ran some new guy off from Missouri. Remember that? You provide good sources, but your attitude really sucks sometimes, man.

Why don't you go count your stack of Olympic water sealant cans or something.

Sorry Claude, but someone had to say it.

Later on.

Pare-
 
Yeah, hemp is some nice stuff to have from what I've heard. Karl Koster, who does a Great Lakes impression and works and lives at Grand Portage, has a lot of documentation on its use up there. I've seen it on a few trade lists for the RMFT, too. One reference mentions it being treated with ox blood.

I'll be ordering some before too long, and hand sewing a wedge tent or a 10x10 lean-to. I'd rather camp when its cold. It just makes a fire worh having.

Post some pics when you get it made.

Good luck!

Pare-
Hey Pare, If I ever get it made I'll be sure to send in a pic. I've been experimenting with a paint tarp (as you've probably read) and am sold on the rectangular tarp. My current tarp is 9'x9' sunforger from Tentsmiths, but I'm convinced that the "oblong square" is the way to go. Maybe 9'x12 I'm figuring. the key is it must be packable.
 
well ghost, here's a few of your own words I copied from your previous post.
"You can study a little, spend a little and do it right. Or you can run out and buy every "cool" thing you can find, spend a fortune, and be very wrong."

"Yes I am still peed off about haveing to look at the 300 pound mountain man wearing only a slick buckskin breechcloth and an dead coyote on his head this past weekend!" ?? I suppose this is the expert you set your camp with?

your oral documentation is your history.
You can take me off this list now too, thank you.
 
It's your money! Go for it! Just don't be suprised when no one notices, or cares.

Guess you didn't read this part of the post.

Some things are necessary for participation.
Other things are "acceptable" for participation.

Ones level of immersion and ones own expectations apply only to himself until that person attempts to blend into a group of other people that propose to be of the same inclinations. Each one diferent, but all of the same general, vague similarity. What is common and acceptable at one location might be inappropriate at another place with another group.

Some things are unacceptable anywhere.
Some things are acceptable anywhere.

Buy your hemp tent. It will be acceptable anywhere. It does not matter to me what your tent is fasioned from as long as it is not a fabric that interferes with the presentation and "mindset" of the historic site or group you represent and cooperate with. They are the persons that you must accomodate through your purchases and actions.

The chance that I will ever lay eyes on you are slim, and unless I am on the jury comittee of a site you visit, my opinion of your gear is of little influnce. If our paths do cross, I do not know you and will not recognize you (first time I have seen an anonomous post allowed on this board!) and would hope that any judgment I placed on your clothing and equipment would be in relationship to the requirements and guidelines of the site.

I have known many people that became obsessed with equipment beyond the level one could view as "reasonable" or "normal". Most are no longer in this activity because their own mindset and presentation became entangled with their knowledge of the inaccuracies in their equipment.

I have known few people that quit because other people were not good enough to camp with. However, many of the people that quit reenacting stop participating because the feel they are not able to do it right! Their own self imposed standards of historical correctness drives them away.

Now that you have your hemp tent what is the rope you use to pitch the tent made from, how about the pegs? Was the fiber woven in the "traditional" manner or on a modern machine?

Are your clothes hand sewn from hand woven fibers, dyed with natural dyes and stiched with with hand spun thread of linen or silk?

Is all of your leather brain tanned, or tanned only using the processes and chemicals used during your era of focus? Are the stiches sewn using sinew or hand spun thread? Were the holes punched with an awl forged by hand?

Is your very limited stock of cookware appropriate for your area? (It was diferent in diferent places) Was it all hand formed from hand forged sheet metal? Are the bails round or square? Are the ears the proper shape and properly rivited in place?

God help you if you are eating using more than a wooden spoon, your fingers and knife!

And does that knife have the proper pedigree? Has modern machinery ever polluted it? How was the steel made? Are the rivits perfect for your area, along with blade shape and handle material. Is it too big, too small, too thin, too thick? Is it sharpened in the proper manner on a natural stone from a river undamed by the Corps of Engineers?

Now, how about the gun. Is it an origional? If origional is it proper for the persona and era? Has anything been repaired or replaced? Who authenticated it? Even the "experts" get fooled on occasion, and some individuals will not accept the expertise of certain other "experts".

If it is not origional was the barrel hand forged, around a mandrel, using a charcoal fire and period correct anvil and tools? Was it then reamed smooth using a hickory rod with steel inserts backed by wheat chaff? Was the lock forged and filed by hand and inlet into a stock that was never touched by power tools, not even cut down with a chain saw? Was artificial lighting being used while this work was in progress?

What about your speech, grammer, hygiene, hair, beard? Do you keep a proper supply of body lice to use for events? Do you have too many teeth to be alive in the prescribed era?

The list never ends! You just draw a line somewhere. You draw it at your own level of participation ability and tolerance.

Then there is the biggist question of all, does everything "look right"? If everything else is perfect and it just does not come together right you are still going to look "farby". Some folk just have the knack of looking goofey and being clumsy in camp.

Other people can walk through Wally World, spend an evening with needle and thread and show up the next day at a site looking like they just survived Braddock's Defeat!

As for what I do, say or advise, you can take it or leave it. No one is forcing any opinion on you. I am simply typing on a keyboard and have absolutely no control over you life or decision makeing process!

This is a computer forum with 4,000 members. Watch the posts closely and you will find that some of our "experts" actually know very little about muzzleloaders. Some of them, obviously, have never fired a black powder gun.

Some of our reenactors have never visited an historic site while wearing period clothing. Some have never spent the night in a cloth tent, nor slept on the ground among the ferns listening to a bear tear up a stump a few yards away.

Some have read but one book and others have studied minute details about an area, ignoring the general flow of history. Still, they arrempt to clarify points of detail in other areas where their expertise is lacking.

My level of interest, imersion, education or expertise applies only to myself. My level of adiquicy or inadiquicy applies only to myself. If you do not wish to read my posts you are not forced too. My answers are drawn from the limited amount of knowledge and reference material I have. My memory may fail me or my information may be outdated or out of context.

Accept my words, or the words and advice of others on this forum with caution. Some of us may not know whatof we speak. Some of us sound good and know nothing. Some of us seldom speak and conceal great wisdom.

Neither do you have to spend your hard earned coins as I feel they should be spent.

I do not have control over your actions or thought processes, over what you learn, know or do.

And I refuse to take tha blame if you look farby.

:hatsoff:
 
Whew!
Ghost, and I thought I needed a ladder to down off of my soapbox! :D
I know it wasn't directed at, or toward me, but whew! you made some fine points, and I actually resemble some of your examples. I've actually gotten close to quitting because I wasn't living up to my own perceived level of acceptability.
Bottom line is we do it for ourselves, and kindred spirits will gravitate toward each other. I joined this list because it most represents the cyber community within which I most wish to associate.
Also, I started this particular thread not to rouse any serious debate, but simply to find out if anyone knew if Linen fabric had naturally inherent water-shedding properties, and I think you were too rough on Beaudro when he, in good faith, tried to answer my query. :nono:
Regardless, We will endeavor to perceiver. And when we've thought about that long enough "endeavor to perceiver" we will declare war on the Union!
:hatsoff:
 
THANK YOU GHOST! For a while I was thinking I wouldn't be able to play the mountainman persona, (or any pc persona,for that matter!) because I kept hearing "you should get this, you should get that,or that's not what they would've had" (note, while saying this,they are sitting next to about 150 lbs, of cast iron cookware, which every mountainman must have carried around!) I do the best I can, I make what I can,I buy what I need...or can afford. and try to be pc w/o making myself miserable and taking the fun out of something I enjoy so much. there are SO many great people I've met doing this and friends I've made that are closer than family,I truly wish more people could experience this "culture"we know.but if everything is to be truly PC, how many new people will or would even try to get involved, and if you look around at a vous' you rarely see a new face,we need newbies and although I really do appreciate (and envy) those who are truly pc,I'd back off the higher pc expectations, and help some new people in..I'm not saying take the pc out, but like you said there has to be a limit.just think if you were a flatlander w/ a couple kids and a wife and you wanted to get into this now, how much would it take in either (or both) time and money??? and to do it truly PC? kids would be out'a school and out'a the house before you got the tent and ropes finihed... just my thoughts, but GHOST THANK YOU ! for laying it out like you did,I appreciate your thoughts! RC :m2c:
 
A few thoughts on Tarps
Linen makes a good tarp it need not be all that heavy as you don
 
Ya Know Pork Pie:
I've contemplated this a while after I finished sealing my tarp tent, and realized that the Olympics has added quite a bit of extra weight (that's OK though, as this isn't meant to hump on my back, but rather to rest on my Toboggan).
Regardless, I've come to the conclusion that the least amount of treatment is the best. I believe I'm going to search out a tightly woven canvas (don't care about the fiber content really as long as it's natural) and opt for the weave and the slope providing the majority of the water-shedding instead of chemically treating it. I'm happy with the effect the Olympic treatment had, but I want to experiment with the "swollen weave" theory now.
 
skagun,

my next tarp is an egytian cloth tarp. it acts much like gortex as far as water repellancy(breathable, but water resistant to the liquid) and that is in an untreated state. the best part of this is the weight. instead of a two pound nylon tarp, or 10 lbs. for a canvas tarp, you have a lightweight 4 lb.'er that packs fairly small. tentsmith offers them. very expensive.

take care, daniel
 
:bow: :rotf: :blah: Ghost and all. When rondevous started it was about shooting ,camping and having fun. PC discussions came along later when people wanted to seem better and smarter than guys who really didnt care about letting PC spoil the fun. In my opinion all this manure about PC is simply tooting your own horn so others will look at and hopefully admire you. My hand made buckskins and fire arms are older than most of you and I really don't care. Thanks to all. Bob
 
I do several local rendezvous where pretty much anything goes, but still, there has to be some standard. I get away with Cabels rubber soled mocs and a screen window in my wall tent but there does have to be something to distinguish a rendezvous from any other drunken party in the woods. Standards may be strict or lax but there does have to be a standard, else wise you'll have vans parked on traders row selling tie-dyed T shirts and DVD's. :haha:
 
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