And my new Italian miquelet carbine

[Flintlock1640]

Ca mid 17th century. This musket is a beast. I think it likely started out as a wall gun and was shortened for heavy cavalry use. In those days I believe the front breastplate was often "prooved' with a pistol ball to make sure it was thick enough to stop a bullet. The answer to that would be a big bore musket like this. It has a 1" bore and was used on a saddle! I guess 100 lbs of armor helps keep you in place lol.

 

[TobJohn]

I am very glad you posted this one!!!! I considered bidding on it, but it was out of my budget.

There is some ambiguity if Italian carbines from this period were civilian weapons or military weapons, but this one is some excellent evidence that they were military arms.

This was probably always a carbine barrel. There are many surviving wheellock carbines from the first half of the 17th century that have similarly massive bores.

 

[Flintlock1640]

I am very glad you posted this one!!!! I considered bidding on it, but it was out of my budget.

There is some ambiguity if Italian carbines from this period were civilian weapons or military weapons, but this one is some excellent evidence that they were military arms.

This was probably always a carbine barrel. There are many surviving wheellock carbines from the first half of the 17th century that have similarly massive bores.

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I suppose it may have been shortened just a little but the shape of the stock seems rather roughly cut down and it has no forward sight even though it has a rear sight. It also has that extra, large hole in the stock, not for a barrel underlug so I thought it was likely for some sort of mount. I could be wrong or maybe it was a short, mounted wall gun for a small ship or something. No telling. I will say it has been short for a long time and was very well used as a short weapon. The barrel is knife-edge thin at the muzzle from use.

 

[TobJohn]

I suppose it may have been shortened just a little but the shape of the stock seems rather roughly cut down and it has no forward sight even though it has a rear sight. It also has that extra, large hole in the stock, not for a barrel underlug so I thought it was likely for some sort of mount. I could be wrong or maybe it was a short, mounted wall gun for a small ship or something. No telling. I will say it has been short for a long time and was very well used as a short weapon. The barrel is knife-edge thin at the muzzle from use.

Thank you for those additional details. That does certainly create a mystery. A very curious gun indeed!

 

[PathfinderNC]

Very cool. It’s a shame that it has no recorded history behind it. Perhaps going from estate sale to estate sale?
It’s a fascinating looking gun and lock. Looking at that jaw screw- the lock maker liked to make extra long screws

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Looking at that jaw screw - the lock maker liked to make extra long screws

Not exactly .... rather, flint knapping wasn't regimented or ordnanced at that time, nor did they have the flattened shape that we know nowadays, so the extra length allowed the piece to hold rock-like or larger 'humpy' pieces.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Sidebar and off subject: Interesting that Flint62Smoothie and PathfinderNC both have over 3900 posts, only 4 posts apart!!! At least I thought that was interesting??? Now back to the subject at hand!

 

[BillinOregon]

Flintlock, what does that lovely wand weigh?

 

[rickystl]

Well, Congratulations !! - yet again. What a cool looking Italian piece. It doesn't look abused, just well used. Note the similarity of the lock to your other Italian lock (only). Also, note the more narrow insert on the frizzen. The same as on my lock, and now three others I've seen. All from Mid-17th Century Italian locks. Interesting.
That larger hole in the forearm may have accommodated another sling swivel at one time. (?)
It's certainly a nice addition to your collection.

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

For further consideration on the origins of the barrel and stock here is some quick research on Italian guns:

These wall guns have the yoke in a similar place to the hole on the carbine, but the stock is reinforced to support it.

They are earlier matchlocks, but some of the only Italian wall guns I am aware of.

The bottom carbine in this set has a rear sight that is cut almost identically and also without a front sight.

Finally, Italian carbines almost always have some decorative straps to retain the ramrod on the stock, or little metal embellishments. You can actually see the damage on the previous guns where they would have gone.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

A Very interesting carbine, Flintlock 1640!

The buttplate reminds me of the carbines that had an extending stock to use from the shoulder, they were more or less exactly this shape. The butt plate was attached to a square rod as you will know, and slid out when required.
What a rare piece you have.

Congratulations!

 

[cyten]

I don’t know how I missed this when you posted it, it’s a gorgeous example