And So It Begins........

Totally salvageable. Put the barrel in your vise, pad it with some copper or brass to protect it. Using a 10 or 12" adjustable wrench on the under side of the tang, get a snug fit, and give the end a whack with a mallet and it should spin free. When you finally reinstall it use a dab of anti-sieze on the threads. As you found out with the inletting black, less is more. When you get it apart, then mark the barrel, and dry fit it with the lock to see where you have to go. You do know that the touch hole should be centered in the pan, and at the top of the pan, not the bottom. You do have one of the books on building Longrifles don't you.

Bill

 

[pdt1793db]

Ok ill do that. I did know that it should be at the center of the pan and at the top. When I drill the touch hole how far infront of the breach plug do I need to be? or is it right at the base? or will that depend on where the pan lines up on the barrel? I do have The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle.

 

[Birddog6]

First thing ya do is Stop on the Rifle, go back in this forum & do some reading. :wink:

There are umpteen threads on this exact thing of building, what to do when & how & etc.

Don't be like about 75% of the newbies that started on here & build it 3/4 of the way & then say "Oh gee, the vent liner is right in the middle of the breech plug, now what do I do?" after it has been discussed Dozens of times on how to set this all up.

Stop, Think, Be Patient..... ALL the information is on here if you will just stop & read it. This is not a race & if you don't do some reading, you will break a leg before you see the finish line.

Keith Lisle

 

[pdt1793db]

Ok ill do that

 

[Eric Krewson]

To really complicate things, you need to check your breech plug fit to the bore of your barrel. If it is a Rice barrel it will not need to be checked, anything else, no telling how much gap you will find between the plug and the barrel face. Best to check it now before you go further.

Lots of breech plug fitting threads available if you do a search on this site.

 

[pdt1793db]

Ok the Barrel I have is a Green Mountain barrel

 

[rich pierce]

First thing ya do is Stop on the Rifle, go back in this forum & do some reading. :wink:

There are umpteen threads on this exact thing of building, what to do when & how & etc.......Stop, Think, Be Patient..... ALL the information is on here if you will just stop & read it. This is not a race & if you don't do some reading, you will break a leg before you see the finish line.

Keith Lisle

In addition do not make the mistake of thinking you can build a gun with online advice alone. This is a big mistake hundreds of people make, apparently.

Books are needed and hands on instruction or somebody checking your work in person would help a lot. There's no way we can warn you about things we can't see.

You should make an outline of the steps you will take when building this gun and be sure you know how to proceed on each step before touching a tool for that step.

For example you may think that that length of tang is appropriate and just inlet it, when in fact tangs are left long so the builder can decide how to shape them, whether to shorten them, or even make them longer (by forging and drawing them out). I'd be building to mimic some original so you don't get too far off.

 

[pdt1793db]

That is part of my problem is that I dont know anyone in this area who builds rifles. This leaves me with no mentor to speak of so I feel like I'm wondering in the dark here. Ive been reading this morning on the forum all I plan to do today is pull the breach plug and mark the depth and read.

 

[Birddog6]

IF the breechplug is installed, the person that installed it should have put a Index Mark with a chisel or a graver, on the bottom flat & onto the breehplug lug. This is the alignment mark to go back to. You are going to have this breechplug in & out several times during the build, so you go back to this mak & make it look like One Line. If you DO NOT have one of these, take a chisel or graver & cut a mark on it Before you remove the breechplug.

The face of the breechplug should look like this if it is properly breeched. Should have a ring marked around the face.

If you have No Ring, clean it up with some Q-tips down in the breech, wipe off the plug, take a permanent marker & blacken the breechplug face & put the plug back in to the Index mark on the bottom of the barrel & breechplug lug. Move it up til the index mark is Even, then back off, then back on, then back off & take the breechplug out.
If correctly breeched it should show a indicating ring on the face of breechplug. If you see no mark at all, then the breechplug is most likely not properly fitted to the bore face correctly & this needs to be done.

Unfortunately, not all barrels bought are properly breeched. They run a plug in til the outside of the top flat is aligned & make a index mark & never check the inside. The outside is cosmetic, the INSIDE fit is Important....

Keith Lisle

 

[Eric Krewson]

When you pull the breach, blacken the face with candle soot, screw it back in to the index mark then back out and see if the black you put on the plug has been marked by the breech face.

 

[pdt1793db]

Thanks for the list you sent me and I will do that with the breach plug.

 

[rich pierce]

That is part of my problem is that I dont know anyone in this area who builds rifles. This leaves me with no mentor to speak of so I feel like I'm wondering in the dark here. Ive been reading this morning on the forum all I plan to do today is pull the breach plug and mark the depth and read.

You can still get books and videos. Building a gun solely depending on online advice is not a good plan. There must be a muzzleloading club within 50 miles of you- chances are there's a builder in the bunch

 

[pdt1793db]

There was a group at my gun club that used to have Black Powder matches but in the last couple years they have quite hosting them. I do need to look for a club or group. I do have The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle but some videos would be useful what do you recommend?

 

[Robbo]

pdt - if its any consolation, I am at about the same point in my first build (a Jim Chambers early Lancaster gun) as you are with yours. I have been following your trials and tribulations and learning heaps from the great advice you are receiving.

As I am a LOT further from hands on advice that you are, I am relying on books and video - and this website almost exclusively. I would recommend you get hold of Ron Ehlert's set of 3 dvds on gun building, and also the one by James Turpin. They are both good and you will learn good stuff from each of them. But if you had to choose only one, you should go for Ron Ehlert because he deals with each step in more detail.

Good luck mate, and I will watch with interest as your gun comes together.

Rob

 

[fosters]

pdt, Robbo and all. I'm at the same point as you two gents. I agree with Robbo on the 2 DVDs well worth the $$ and if I had to pick 1 I would go with Ron's for the detail. I've watch both probably 3 dozen times each. Good info. Also if you can find 1 The Gunsmiths of Grenville County is a great reference. As for going slow that seems to be the key. You might want to work faster than me though, it took me two years to buy the components. :wink: I wanted to dive right in when my components arrived and I almost did til I realized that one step affects the next and if I did not plan each stage out I'd probably end up with an expensive club because the vent ended up in the wrong place, triggers don't engage the sear, no room for front lock bolt, etc, etc,

Best of luck and I'll be following this thread and rooting for you!

Fosters

I've spent hours looking through old posts on this site and others. Well worth the time.

 

[Zonie]

I can't tell if that is a straight barrel or not.

If it is a straight barrel (instead of a swamped barrel) you really do not have to remove the breech plug to bed the barrel.

By now, you should have removed enough wood from the sides of the barrel channel so the barrel can be installed and removed rather easily.

If the barrel is a straight octagon, you can install it backwards with the muzzle towards the breech to find the areas of wood that need to be removed to get the barrel down to the bottom of the pre cut channel and tight against the back of the channel where the rear of the barrel will seat.

Do as the others mentioned to determine exactly where the face of the installed breech plug is.
Then, using a black felt tip marker blacken the side of the barrel and transfer the distance from the muzzle to the breech plug to the outside of the barrel. Make a nice scratch in the felt tip ink.

Compare this scratch with the center of the locks pan. If it is not at least 3/16" behind the center of the pan you will have to move the barrel back towards the butt of the stock until it is. The only way to do this is with a chisel and a LOT of TIME.

Before worrying about the tang, the rear of the barrel MUST BE TIGHT against the wood at the rear of the barrel. Gaps, like I see in your picture will not do.

If the barrel is swamped you will have to remove the breech plug as the others have told you to do.

The marking of the breech face, the fitting of the sides of the barrel in the barrel channel, making sure the bottom of the barrel is resting on the bottom flat of the barrel channel are the same as a straight octagon barrel.

Have fun and GO SLOW! A little screw up will take more time to fix than the little extra time it takes to do it right.

 

[pdt1793db]

Im learning about the little screw up is taking a long time to fix first hand lol. Im glad theres other people attempting this I figure you gotta start somewhere. The barrel I have a strait Green River Barrel. Currently Im still trying to get the breach plug out. Ive marked it but the barrel just spins in the vise even when padded with wood vise blocks. Any ideas on a Breach plung removal tool? Or heating the barrel? I know for modern centerfire rifles there are barrel wrenches that clamp on to twist barrels. Is there such a devise for breach plugs, and where do you get it?

 

[rich pierce]

Get a book and read it. :thumbsup: Get some kind of resource beyond asking questions online.

 

[Birddog6]

Im learning about the little screw up is taking a long time to fix first hand lol. Im glad theres other people attempting this I figure you gotta start somewhere. The barrel I have a strait Green River Barrel. Currently Im still trying to get the breach plug out. Ive marked it but the barrel just spins in the vise even when padded with wood vise blocks. Any ideas on a Breach plug removal tool? Or heating the barrel? I know for modern centerfire rifles there are barrel wrenches that clamp on to twist barrels. Is there such a devise for breach plugs, and where do you get it?

Sounds like not enough vice & not enough wrench. Takes a good tight vice with wide jaws (6" wide jaws work for me, not...6" opening), the jaws are 6" wide. Surface area clamping the barrel is the key....
I use a 15" Cresent wrench & have the jaws ground to fit tangs. If the tang is not tapered I have another 15" wrench to do them as well.

If you use wood blocks, it is best they be Oak, Maple or Hickory, and the octagon cut into the blocks so they grip in several areas. They should fit snug to the barrel so it will not move in them. Thus if doing several barrel sizes, you need several pairs of blocks.
That is why I don't use wood blocks, much easier to just put it in a good wide jawed vice with some brass plate over the jaws & go from there.

Some places put the breechplugs in so tight a gorilla can't get them out. I never have understood why they did this. The barrels are mild steel, and all that does is put stress on the barrel & breechplug threads.... :hmm:

When I fit one, I want it to go fairly easy til up to aligning the last flat, & I want it to be seated tight when I come up on the index mark.

Keith Lisle

 

[Zonie]

Wood works very poorly as a vise jaw pad when your trying to remove a breech plug.

If you go to your local hardware store and buy some brass sheet metal to put between the vise jaws and the barrel it will clamp the barrel very securely. The brass does not have to be thick. 1/64 (.015) thick material will work fine and it won't mar the barrels finish.

Also, make sure the clamping pressure from the vise is not over the threads. It should be at least 3/4" away from them.