Annealing O1

[LRB]

Seriously, the way I solve problems like that......I send a check to L&R. :wink: :surrender:

L&R, nor anyone else, makes a lock of any kind that I find really suitable as-is. In function or appearance. :wink:

Me too Chris. I do a lot of work even on Chambers completed locks. They work good as is, but can be made even better. Chambers chose 01 for the internals because it is very wear resistant, even if poorly heat treated. The alloys in it make it a very tough through hardening steel.

 

[Stophel]

Well, I went out and started drilling. Drilled the small hole for the fly in the tumbler, using cutting oil, and it drilled just fine, no problems whatsoever. So... then I turned it over to drill the screw hole. Went a short way, then started squealing and smoking and got H O T (as always). BUT, surprisingly, it was still cutting. I stopped it every now and then to re oil it and attempt to cool everything, and finally got to the bottom where I wanted to stop the hole, Yay! Just at that instant, the drill bit broke. Of course. Naturally, I can't get it out. So, I heated it all to anneal the drill bit down (hopefully it's not made of O1 too...) so I can drill it out. Hopefully. I am not particularly happy at the moment. I may have to order a solid carbide drill bit to cut it out.

I have, however come to a major life decision. I have determined that I shall NEVER, under ANY circumstances, even consider using a Siler tumbler or sear on anything ever again. It's a good design, and it's readily available, but the material is a nightmare. I've tried. And this is not just a one time event, every single solitary time I have used them over the past 15 years or so, they have given me trouble. More trouble than it's worth, really. Long time to learn a lesson, but I finally got it. I know other people have been doing them forever with no problems whatsoever. I'm happy for them, but that particular lucky star has never shone down on me.

 

[Billnpatti]

Thanks, Wick, I did find what you said interesting enough that I looked up the meaning of each of those words. I'm not sure that I completely understood all that I read but I did find it interesting none the less. Your explanation helped a lot and I appreciate it. I like the technical side of muzzleloading because it really helps me understand what is going on. It is not everyone's cup of tea but I enjoy it.

Thanks for your posting.

 

[Curt]

Chris Why dont you try water instead of oil to cool your work with,thats the way they drill stainless so it should work for O1 as well.Curt

 

[Stophel]

I just ordered a bunch of drill bits from McMaster-Carr (or at least, I think I did...). Got some carbide ones (not cheap, but cheaper than from Brownells). I even got a carbide #49 to drill the hole for the fly, assuming I cannot drill out the broken bit without making a mess and have to start all over again with another tumbler (I still have 1 or 2 extras).

I can't constantly squirt water on the bit while I'm drilling to keep it cool. It simply shouldn't get that hot to begin with.

I know that I am me, and all, and nothing works for me like it does for everyone else, but I still can't believe that I am the only one who always has this much trouble with Siler parts. Oh well.

 

[M. De Land]

You should be able to get a broken twist drill out without difficulty.
I would heat her up and then cool quickly with some WD-40 the contraction will usually break the bind adhesion and then you can work it out with dental picks without ruining the hole.
I have used this many times retrieving broken taps in hard steel.
If you have to drill out a broken tap or drill bit than buy a carbide center drill for the job other wise a regular twist carbide will likely wonder off center. Mike D.

 

[Tinker2]

Look up DIY EDM or Electrical Discharge Machining very easy to make with things you most likely have on hand.





William Alexander

 

[Zonie]

Speaking of EDM, if Stophel breaks off one of those tungsten carbide drill bits in a hole, that is the only way of getting it out short of cutting the part in half.

 

[Stophel]

I managed to break out about 2/3rds of the drill bit, but the last bit of it will not move. Period. When my carbide bits get here, I'll give it a try (straight flutes). There's enough of a hole there that it should keep center. We'll see. If it don't work, and it probably won't, I have another tumbler to go with, and I'm not about to even try drilling into the thing until the carbide bits arrive. And then I'm going to take this screwed up one and pound it repeatedly on a rock with a very large hammer, then take the torch and burn it up.

 

[Zonie]

Tungsten carbide is VERY hard and it is fairly brittle but it is also quite strong.

It doesn't like interrupted cuts and that is what it is going to be facing when it tries to drill out the old drill bit so good luck.

 

[Stophel]

Actually, at this point, I think I'll just start again with a new one, and to h--l with this one. And if I ever get it done, it will be the absolute last Siler I ever try to fool with. For future lock building projects, if any, I don't know, maybe use the L&R Classic tumbler, though I never was crazy about that little flat fly. They told me their parts are 6150... or is it 5160, I never can remember.... either way, their steel I can work with. I'll have to ask Davis what steel they use for their tumblers and sears. I do know that they "carbo-nitride" them (a modern version of case hardening) and they are rock hard on the surface.

 

[LRB]

Chris. When you have some spare time, cut a few test pieces from that bar of 01 I sent you. Harden the pieces, then experiment with annealing them. I am pretty sure you can work it out. Or, I have some scrap pieces I could send you. I believe you can do it.

 

[ehoff]

In stead of trying to drill the hole to the correct size all at once start smaller. Drill say a 1/16" hole first the increase the drill size, finish with the size you want. This way the amount of material you are removing is decreased, use lots of cutting oil and clear the chips often.

 

[Drue Rice]

A thought.

You have to take away ALL AIR to anneal air hardening tool steel. Kitty litter may work if you grind it into a very fine powder, quick lime is all my grandfather used.

Might be hard to find now days but you could try Portland cement, it is a very fine powder that packs easily and when packed takes away ALL air.

 

[LRB]

01 is an oil hardening steel.

 

[Tinker2]

And then I'm going to take this screwed up one and pound it repeatedly on a rock with a very large hammer, then take the torch and burn it up.

That was my first idea. Take pictures and post them, we all would like that. :thumbsup:

hotoSmile:

I called in a computer tech once, when he asked what happened to the key board I told him it had been beat on with a hammer.




William Alexander

 

[Drue Rice]

01 is an oil hardening steel.

I believe it works for oil hardening too.

 

[LRB]

No. That is not a necessary procedure with oil hardening steels. Especially with hypereutectic steels which require a much lower temp to begin the process. To protect against loss of carbon from the higher temps air hardening steels require , it would be a good idea. All that requires is a stainless steel foil enclosure. Also, removal of all air is not required to anneal air hardening steel, but to protect against carbon loss only.

 

[Kenny54]

i recently broke off a tap. after hours of trying to dig it out i went online and found that if you go to home depot, buy a can of compressed air. just a few $. tip can upside down and spray on the broken piece, it freezes it and it shattered right out with a blow from the punch,. this really worked :idunno:

 

[LRB]

Compressed air freezes?? :shocked2: