Another lucky deer.

[capt eddie]

I did everything that was told to do about my missfires. This morning I was trying to get one more deer before the season ended. Wife said we would grind up all of this deer for suasage and hamburger. So I decided to get a big one instead of tender. First deer comes in, small doe. I watch her at 50 yards. Draw a bead to help calm down, just watch her as she feed off. 30 minute later a small deer runs out into the field, followed my big momma. I wait til she is 50 yards away. POP. Deer looks and me and slowly walks off. As I sit there wondering what just happen. I relive last night when I cleaned the gun. Swapped with bore cleaner, dry patches. I do put a finel patch with TC lube. Then I popped off two caps. After coming back to the computer and seeing all that recommend the alchol wash. I poured the alchol and blew out the barreland used a clean patch. This was about 10p.m. That brings us back to the deer stand. While sitting there I decided to take out the nipple and see if there was any moisture. I was expecting to see fluid or powder. NOTHING why was there not any powder at the bottom of the nipple? Is there supposed to be powder or is it just a chamber? Remember I am new to ML. I do have a small 3/16 screw on the side of the nipple area. When I got home I took out the screw and cleaned out the chamber. I could not tell if it was plugged up. Where can I learn about the shoot process? Do I have to clean these chambers out? Any help in the matter would really help me understand where I am going wrong.

 

[Rogue River]

Before I load I use an alcohol patch up and down the barrel a couple times, wait a minute or so for the alcohol to disapate then I pop 2 caps to make sure the breech is dry. Now I load it, never a problem.

You can clean your powder channel with a pipe cleaner thru your nipple hole or side screw. When you replace nipple and screw use a little anti-seize on the threads. You can pickup a tube of anti-seize at any auto parts store.

 

[tomme boy]

I did not see in your other post, what kind of powder are you using? I was having the same problems as you are having when I was using Pyrodex. It was about 10 years old. I switched to a new canister and was still having the same thing happen, but not as bad. I switched to real BP and have not had the problem since.

One thing I always do, and I think it really helps. After pouring the powder, I slap the barrel a couple of time by the breech. I gets powder up into the drum this way. Try that and see if it helps.

 

[tomme boy]

Is the TC lube you are using the Bore Butter? If it is stop using it. I never hear of anything good with using it.

 

[capt eddie]

I am using Natural Lube 1000. It appears that the chamber from the barrel to the nipple is about 1/8 round , is this correct or normal? Is the powder to fill the chamber for the fire to get to the barrel, or does the cap flash travel the chamber?

 

[SgtSchutzen]

I`m also thinking maybe your using Pyrodex RS granulation? If so, that stuff has pretty big "kernels" and usually won`t flow into the flash channel and end up under the nipple where it can easily ignite. When I used to use the stuff I always removed the nipple after loading my main charge and dumped a tiny bit into the nipple hole in the drum. Then replace the nipple and cap the gun. All this is assuming Pyrodex IS what your using?

1/8" round is about normal for a flash channel. It always helps ignition if you have some powder in the channel. Means less distance the cap flash has to travel. If your powder is course grained though, you will probably have to remove your nipple like I said above to get some there.

 

[capt eddie]

Yes I am using Pyrodex RS. When I looked in the nipple hole I could not see any powder until I tapped on the side of the stock. Now let me say that I am shooting a Sile Inc 50 cal Hawken. Never shot until I got it from my Father in law. He built the kits many many moons ago and never shot it. I have put 20 TC Cheap Shots through it so far. Killed one doe with the 10th shot. I am amazed at how well it shots. 2 inch groups at 69 yards.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

How old is your powder? My experience with Pyrodex is it can be hard to ignite sometimes, especially if it is kinda old. If you can get some real black powder like Goex it lights alot easier. Pyrodex will work though, you just have to take aditional steps sometimes to make it ignite reliably.

I edited my first post to answer one of your questions. Also what are Thompson Center cheap shots?

 

[tomme boy]

If you have to use the Pyrodex, use the P. Would not go over about 80grs though. It works much better than the RS or Select. The Pyrodex is also more corrosive than real black.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

when you dump the powder down the bore you are supposed to turn the lock side of the stock down toward the ground and bang on the opposite lock side of the stock to help shift the powder into the bolster and under the nipple. When you go to put the projectile down the bore, make sure you keep the lock side pointed away from your body and at an angle to keep the powder from moving out of the bolster. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvdKd_w-3I

 

[silly goose]

I don't want to beat you up over the real black powder thing, but I think if you try it, your problems will be solved.

 

[shooter50]

I have to 2nd "silly goose" on real black powder.

 

[Bill Hall]

I'm going to third that. Some people have shot pyrodex in their sidelocks for years with no problems, and they swear by it. Others have used it and swear at it, having nothing but problems. I guess it depends on the particular gun, or other factors we can't know about. I do know that all who have used real black powder have had relatively no problems, save for the little things we talked about in your previous post (oil, moisture, crud, etc).

If your flash channel is clear, as it seems to be, and oil and crud free, I don't see any reason why black powder wouldn't solve your ignition problem. Pyrodex is just more problematic to ignite, that's why most modern muzzleloaders use either musket caps or shotgun primers to make those things go off. Good luck. Bill

 

[Kentuckywindage]

If theres no powder under the nipple, black powder won't solve this.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

If theres no powder under the nipple, black powder won't solve this.

Yes it will. You don`t have to have powder directly under the nipple for the flash from the cap to ignite it. It just helps when using pyrodex because pyrodex needs a hotter flash than real black to ignite. The flash from the nipple will go thru the flash channel (if it`s clear) to reach the charge. Thats why pyrodex won`t ignite in a flintlock and black will. The main charge in a flintlock is separated from the pan by the thickness of the barrel wall yet the flash from the pan still gets through to ignite it.

 

[Bill Hall]

If theres no powder under the nipple, black powder won't solve this.

I kinda sorta somewhat agree with that, no powder directly under the nipple will certainly make the chances of ignition little slimmer. But I still maintain that black powder doesn't need to be directly under the cap flame to ignite, whereas pyrodex probably should be.

I have found that one of the differences between black powder and pyrodex is that the pryo doesn't flow as well as blackpowder. I don't know if it's the difference in grain shape, or the lack of graphite, but I can easily see that pyro doesn't flow from my flask, or through a funnel, anywhere near as easily as black powder. So, perhaps the main problem the original poster is experiencing is that the pyro is bunching up in the breech, and not getting close enough to the nipple. Pyro is also inherently harder to ignite than black. Couple these two factors together (the distance the pyrodex is from the nipple, and the added difficulty in ignition), and it becomes clear that black powder should at least aid in making ignition easier.

I won't say that black powder is foolproof, but it does remove some of the negative factors that pyro can possess. Just my thoughts. Bill

 

[capt eddie]

My powder and gun is less then one week old. So that should not be the problem. I read another post on here about the hole from the nipple to the powder. I know that after 19 shots I have not cleaned out the fire channel. Until today. It was hard to clean with the screwdriver that I used toe remove the setscrew. It fired tonight at a doe. I will go backand look for it in the morning.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

I know that after 19 shots I have not cleaned out the fire channel. Until today.

Very possibly your problem. Using Pyrodex though I would still make sure you have powder under the nipple. Good luck and hope you get that deer.

 

[S.Kenton]

How are you cleaning your ML'er after shooting?IF theres blockage a good cleaning should solve the issue..Heres my cleaning method: I get a pan, add enough hot water to be able to immerse your breech and nipple. Add some dish soap to your pan of hot water. Then remove your barrel from your rifle, immerse the breech in the hot, soapy water. Grab your ram rod with a cleaning patch dip the patch in the water and run the patch up and down your bore. This will create a suction. run it up and down till water is forced out of the end of the barrel and patch is also at the end of the barrel. Dump your dirty water and do it all again with clean water. Then dump the water again. Take a dry patch and run it up and down your bore pushing all the water out of the barrel, through the nipple. Then run an alcohol soaked patch down your bore. run a few more patches through the bore.. then let it dry,If possible let it dry close to your fireplace, heater duct or in a nice dry room. . I then spray my Gun oil in the bore and run a patch yet again.
I also use Goex fff. I load and shoot..no tapping the reciever..no hangfires..no problems ever.
Just my 2 cents.
GOOD LUCK and keep us posted!

 

[ebiggs1]

Whatever your problem is, Pyrodex RS and Bore Butter is not it. I am not familiar with your gun but you need to look further. I suggest you get a bore light and do a through cleaning job. :thumbsup:

Some people have a problem and arbitrarily decide it must be Pyrodex, or whatever, and actually it had nothing to do with the problem. It doesn't help solve your situation when you have drawn the wrong conclusion. :hmm: